[blackzoid]

Yes, but at least the assassins are generally not deciding the fate of major battles by themselves. They are always fighting behind the scenes. And the assassins are fighting each other with losses been incurred on both sides.

Generally we have:
Mage versus Mage
Assassin versus Assassin
Swordsman versus Swordsman
Ascendent versus Ascendent
etc
We also have variations to take down each character type.

We do NOT have:
Sapper versus Sapper (except as was said the Moranth in RotCG, but not very effective)

I have yet to see an anti-sapper wapon or tactic and its about time its brought into the series. Its getting to the stage that as soon as a sapper character is "on screen" I know he/she will not die and that cussers/shapers etc will be the solution to the problem at hand. They are now unkillable. At leats with other characters there is the possibility of death, not for the sappers.

[Tarcil]

I understand what you mean, but for me it isn't a problem yet. The influence of the munitions is large, but mostly i find that the're a good block against mages taking over the battle. A sapper can turn a battle, situation,... yes and they frequently do so, but I find the threat of mages killing whole armies a bit bigger.
Also assassins do play a pivotal role: Apsalar taking down around 300? claws shook the foundations of Laseens power more than a cracker could.

handy and powerful yes, decisively and uninvinsible no
just need a big gulf of magefire or a host of K'Cain Che'Malle K'ell hunters and the're toast or kebab. ( or a stupid sapper who drops something)

My opinion

[Veilside]

Tarcil, except that she probably did a favour to Laseen, because most of those claws were probably taking orders from Mallick Rell.

[magicrealist]

Topper is half Tiste andii right? Does that explain his sending girl assasin to Kurald Galain?

Just caught that on bathroom flip through

[Veilside]

Yup, he is half Andii.

[VampireGoat]

Must say, giving it some thought im with Tarcil on the sappers. Although I think RotCG specificly was a little forgiving with the sappers, I don't think they're a problem. Sure sappers kick arse but we know for a fact mages kick more, Ascendants kick more and certain assasins do a damn mighty job.

With single mages being able to basicly blast armies to oblivion and such, a guy with a bomb that'll clear a room no questions asked is not out of the question. I think many of the sappers, especially in rotcg get a bit to lucky for their own good, Fid I can accept however because he's meant to be the best along with Hedge.

As for over powered assasins, well lets be fair, of tarcil's list which is most of the pov assasin characters only cutter and kalam arnt mages, near ascendants or gods. Cutter is a bit of a ponce I don't personally count him an assasin, he's a thief with a knife who's been sent to assasinate a couple of people, aided by little miss apsalar which basicly means he stood there and tried to look tough. Kalams a different story, in all fairness kalams skill level border on being as bad, if not worse then Karsa's at points. His attitude makes it acceptable because he doesnt revel in it and shows fear towards certain situations, but he still manages to carve pathways through malaz isle killing a very vast number claw without any special powerups etc. He's just tough.

So sappers arn't the only overpowered characters. Infact lets be fair, the entire series is full of them. Some of the characters will make the most overpowered anime character cower in fear by the sheer vastness of their ownage. The thing is, some hard bitten assasin is ok cause he's gettin in their and fighting etc, mages are ok its their talent and ascendants are well ascendants. I know what annoys people with sappers, any fool can throw a munition and win the day, no skill or nothing.

Lets be truthful though, if sappers were a type of mage that delt with an extremely volitile warren under the command of the lord of high house KABOOM nobody would bat an eyelid.

Munitions represent the coming of more advanced, constructed weapons as apposed to magical ones. Just as it annoyed my great tribal warriors and protectors who'd trained to protect their tribe and family against any threat since his was but a boy, only to get shot down by some european explorer who'd been given a crash course in using a gun 10 minutes ago, so does it annoy us today in the malazan world. Alas what holds true in life holds true in this particular fiction.

It's not overpowered, it's life.

[vaiski]

Just finished this, and I'm very impressed. Very big improvement from NoK which, while giving us a lot of nice information, suffered from a bit clumsy writing. However, after this there is no question whether ICE can hold his own compared to SE.

[Sweetgrass]

wolf_2099;327145 said:

I remember the scene with Hood and Dessembrae but I got the impression they were speaking of Toc the Elder?
I will re-read, but for now, clarification? Dessembrae = Dassem and he was discussing Toc with Hood?

Iron Bars on the wall at the end, yes? Could be interesting?

Weren't they talking about Ullen?

[ShadowOwl]

I agree it was Ullen, as D was talking about the loss of his potential to the future, while Toc the Elder was at the end of his really.

[magicrealist]

I thought it was ullen as well.