[Ain't_It_Just_]

On the Seguleh who was going to fight Rhulad:

I believe in MoI Toc said the Seguleh first wore a porcelain mask with no markings. The S in RG may have had eleven marks, but her mask was made of porcelain! Maybe the Top ten Seguleh get it? Or maybe they have a raffle.

[muco]

Oseric;330974 said:

but Apt Karsa is more a brute i thought? not a sword master...

thats what i gathered from his fighting at least, i could easily be wrong
and
by equal i just ment that the First of the T'lan Imass is not at the same level as the First of the Seguleh...

but that part doesnt matter so much

People seems to forget how quick Karsa is!

There are quite a few instances in the series which highlight this.

One particularly in HOC where Kalam himself could not believe how quietly and quickly Karsa moved.

The brute strength just adds to his versatality.

[Oseric]

Ain said:

On the Seguleh who was going to fight Rhulad:

I believe in MoI Toc said the Seguleh first wore a porcelain mask with no markings. The S in RG may have had eleven marks, but her mask was made of porcelain! Maybe the Top ten Seguleh get it? Or maybe they have a raffle.

i think the First wouldn't have gone away to some unknown Empire without sending others ahead... like he did with sending Mok to the Domin

[Aptorian]

I think Brys could kill anything and anyone with that sword. Especially now that he's become connected with both the empty hold and Emurhlan

[Zanth13]

Brys is good in all, but the more I have thought about it, the less I think he could take on Dassem or the Top segulah...

imo he doesn't have the experience, but as Apt pointed out, his new connection to the empy hold ect. could be sufficient enough... not to mention being brought back to life... death (or forms of it) seems to be a key ingredient and many peoples ascention pie...num num num num....

but I still stick with the Segs and Dassem being the bestest out there...

[Oseric]

how good was Dassem though?

i know he was good but what made him outstanding? I dont remember reading much about how good he was, just people saying he was amazing. No explaining of his fights from what i remember, though im human and could be wrong

[Zanth13]

Oseric;331419 said:

how good was Dassem though?

i know he was good but what made him outstanding? I dont remember reading much about how good he was, just people saying he was amazing. No explaining of his fights from what i remember, though im human and could be wrong

well he is the best ...

in the book he is described as unbeatable pretty much...

he is the bench mark from which other fighters have been compared

ie so and so is awsome he fought toe 2 toe with Dassem for a little bit or so and so actually managed to back Dassem off for a few steps...

When ever skill is mentioned in the Malazan world Dassem is pretty much mentioned in the same paragraph....

Icarium didnt think he could beat him... and thats saying alot....

no one has ever been mentioned as "greater then Dassem" I dont even think the words equal have been used....

not saying he cant be beat... but his reputation is huge (bigger then Apts) everyone has heard of him

[drinksinbars]

dassem is described as well in MOI as the first sword reborn by k'rul when he and lady envy are speaking in callow. he was sucha great fighter that his power was rivaling hoods. he was also a high priest of drek supposedly.

and given that everyone just assumes he is traveller he also has vengenace in his hand. rakes previous sword, supposedly the sword he would have used to defeat draconus and take dragnipur from him.

dassem = god of swordplay.

[Silencer]

Yeah - the thing with Icarium was pretty big.
IIRC, Karsa was only being really violent in the practices so that no one could get to kill Rhulad first.....
Dassem certainly seems to be the pre-eminent swordsman. He managed to kill the Avowed - who supposedly couldn't be killed. Only Skinner, it's said, walked away from their fight.
Of course, Rake has to be up there - he fought through most of the island of the Seguleh, gaining the rank of 7th, before withdrawing to catch his breath! There's no reason to think he couldn't have fought the 1st on equal terms.
Personally, I think Brys is pretty good, but doesn't have the sheer power of others - it's true that his resurrection/whatever may have given him a further boost, but still....

If we turn this into a ranking thread:
Rake/Dassem/Seguleh First
Icarium/Karsa/Brys

Just from a "what I think I know" standpoint. Rake is the most easily debatable, but he is still easily in the top 10....all of them are.
TtH semi-spoiler:

Spoiler

If the person Karsa meets that he supposedly can't beat is in fact Calm, then he should in theory be worse than Icarium, who was originally involved in the defeating of said personage.

argh! Cross-post. Where is the D'rek thing mentioned, DiBs? I don't recall that.
Still, I think he's probably number 1, at least until we see otherwise.

[drinksinbars]

the drek thing, hmmm thing it was in hoc in the scene where nok and tavore are speaking and discussing the family.

he says that when dassem joined up he was a dal honese and a priest or something of d'rek. cant remember the terminology. dont have the book handy either

[Imperial Historian]

Dassem was dal honese, but it was tays who was a priest of drek not dassem, as he's reffed as such in BH.

"Dassem Ultor - who was, like Kellanved, of Dal Honese blood - and a renegade High Septarch of the D'rek Cult, Tayschrenn"

[drinksinbars]

ahh, i knew tays was int he drek cult, but when i read that it must have become jumbled in my drinkfuelled mind nice catch IH!

[Oseric]

yeah so Dassem is badass.
plus his title as the Knight of Death or whatever makes sense it showing how amazing he is, Rake though...

i dont know if he is top material, he is high up there but 1st im skeptical about.

and i also expect Rake to die or something tragically happen do his damned sword

[Veilside]

Oseric;331791 said:

yeah so Dassem is badass.
plus his title as the Knight of Death or whatever makes sense it showing how amazing he is, Rake though...

i dont know if he is top material, he is high up there but 1st im skeptical about.

and i also expect Rake to die or something tragically happen do his damned sword

Dassem isn't the Knight of Death any longer, he gave that up when his daughter was killed. He is however a God, so he must be pretty damned bad arse.

[Oseric]

i know he isn't anymore. i was just saying that to get that title then you must be amazing as we all agree with

[Tarcil]

It seems we have no idea how scary good Dassem is.

Spoiler

I just begun TtH and the are a few tiny tidbits thrown around that give me the impression Dassem is ubergood.

Just a minor spoiler from the first 50 pages, don't know if TtH will give more info on Dassem.

[Zendog13]

Yes...but can he beat the Mule?

[L'oric]

Zendog13;333479 said:

Yes...but can he beat the Mule?

I can not think of anyone that I have a higher opinion of than Dassem. Certainly there are a ton that could be as high, but none higher. Someone had to kill the Seguleh second. Why not Dassem? What has he not been able to defeat in his life? Icarium said he did not know the outcome of a battle between him and Dassem. Icarium! I do not think the Seguleh first would stand a chance...then again I like Tool and he lost to the Third. Hopefully Tool will get better.

He has a sword the equal of all but Dragnipur made for Rake's own brother
Andarist that will not let him be defeated unless he doubts himself, and from what little we know of Dassem those times seem to be few and far between.

I am sure if he acquired a fabled Mule everyone would think he was destined to Kill Hood and take over his spot. After all what's wrong with killing Death as long as you got a mule to carry the bodies?

I love every snippet of inner monologue or introspection from Shadowthrone, Cotillion and Traveler/Dassem. Of the three Dassem is the one we know least about. I hope these two next volumes fixes that type of omission.

Sincerely,

[BeLeG]

Some thoughts

I leave Karsa out:he is the Author's favorite so it is always possible that he can kill anyone and anything out there

Rake imho is top along with Dassem and Seguleh First

but think about Brys Beddict
Remember his POV and other people's comments?The Ceda and Tehol say that his way of thinking is the way of a true duelist
Have we ever seen something like that before?I think he had the best chances to evolve into the greatest swordsman ever.He had only two fights in MT but his first was against the Guardian(an ascendant of sorts?) and his second was against Rhulad (an Ascendant for sure).

of course I may be a little biased towards him because I really liked the way he defeated Rhulad.

[Tarcil]

You can find it here and there, mostly in RotCG:

Spoiler

Dassem is awsome because he fights very economicaly: no wild swings and powerful hammerblows, he flows and his defending is perfect. when he strikes he's like a viper and most don't even see it. The reason he's so good is because he's enormously focused and has a mindpower unlike almost anyone. I think that on that level he's like Karsa: you can't stop him.

not a real spoiler but a fact that some people might like to find out by themselves.

My personal ranking would be something like

Dassem
Karsa and Rake
Kallor, Whiskeyjack, Brys, Seguleh 1
Mok
Tool

remember it was said that it took dassem a while to get past whiskeyjack's guard. Those of you who haven't read RotCG or TtH will find out how special that is. There are some musings in both books.