[lobo the wolfman]

I agree with you Lisheo, have some rep.
Rake seemed conferdent he chould take Raest, and he dosen't seem to be the boasting type. But on the other hand he knew it would be a hard battle that could leave him open to what ever Tay and Lorn had planned next. So he knows his own limits.

[Lisheo]

The fact that he knows his own limits puts him in the position of one of the most dangerous characters on Wu... He seems to be the only Ascendant not vulnerable to hubris, with the possible exception of Karsa.

[lobo the wolfman]

Sorry i disagree about Karsa. I think that Karsa just puts his head down and hopes for the best in any situation, he just doesn't wanna tell anyone that it's all luck

(I really hate the character, Karsa)

[Lisheo]

That might be true, he's not as savvy as Rake, but he's still not arrogant. Hes simply confident. Very confident lol

[lobo the wolfman]

too confident in fact for my liking, i think Rakes going to clean the floor with him.

[Ayrin]

iRFNA;291609 said:

I never said immune? I just said to apparently no harmful side effects (atleast according to his POV, he didn't seem to be weakened by it).

Well, he *was* bleeding... seems like a harmful side effect to me .

Quote

I was using that as an example of how others of greater more power could easily have, as you put it, that "extra armor"... And in their case, it may be able to withstand significantly more than just a dagger.

Ah, ok, I meant "extra armor" quite literally, as in him casting a spell to give himself extra protection.

Quote

Edit: After a reread, I noticed I also said "immune to such a fate", as in "they can't be killed with a dagger". Not immune to the dagger completely.

Ok, then I misinterpreted you a little .

[Lisheo]

*stabs himself with dagger* ha, look, I too am immune
*keels over*
ah crap...

[Venerus]

Lisheo;291789 said:

Dragon of Thyrr

Out of curiosity, when did we learn that again?

[Kimloc]

Imperium Corruo;290757 said:

Reading this thread it struck me as more likely than Rake being killed unceremoniously by a dagger in the back is the possibility that Rake is somehow killed by Dragnipur itself.

That's poetic justice indeed.

other than that, I'm inclined to think Karsa could beat/kill Rake rather handily as long as Rake is not in his dragon form. If that were the case, I think the odds are in Rake's favor, but my man Karsa has surprised us before, amirite?

As to whether these ascendants can be killed by mere bodily harm, I'm inclined to think enough bodily harm could do it, yet significantly more than what would normally kill a mortal. Thus knives in the back won't kill Silcas, yet Karsa cleaving Rake entirely in two with his 6 foot long stone sword would do nicely.

However given this analysis, Scabby's words to Silcas that he does not have the power to kill Silcas is vexing. I don't think it is necessarily attributable to the ritual.

I will also note that the Bonecasters in bear form appear to have killed Menador's sister in a relatively mundane manner with great physical harm. I don't see why she would be any any less likely to resist bodily death than Ruin

I never understood why Scabby didn't just veer and dismember Silchas after stabbing him.

[Aptorian]

p. 51 Bonehunters:

Quote

The female dragon spoke, "I am Eloth, Mistress of Illusions - Meanas to you - and Mocra and Thyr.

Kimloc;292010 said:

I never understood why Scabby didn't just veer and dismember Silchas after stabbing him.

Because then his entire storyline in MT and RG wouldn't make any sense, silly... Duh

[Gem Windcaster]

Kimloc;292010 said:

I never understood why Scabby didn't just veer and dismember Silchas after stabbing him.

That would kinda give him away, wouldn't it? I mean, he's a coward. He probably planned to pin it on someone else.

[Venerus]

Kimloc;292010 said:

I never understood why Scabby didn't just veer and dismember Silchas after stabbing him.

Scabs talking to Silchas:

Quote

"Aye, I cannot kill you outright -- you are too powerful for that. Thus, I will take you to a suitable place, and leave you to the roots, earth and stone of its mangled grounds..."

He couldn't. Not powerful enough. And not because of Gothos' ritual -- hadn't come close to completion yet (wasn't nearly done until after he deposited Silchas in the Azath, and then Killy beat Scabs down).

[Aptorian]

In other words, like scabby, Ruins soul would still be on the loose, probably able to posses another creature or maybe even recreate a new physical form.

[Kimloc]

Aptorian;292155 said:

In other words, like scabby, Ruins soul would still be on the loose, probably able to posses another creature or maybe even recreate a new physical form.

Ok, this is the only response that even begins to make any sense to me. But if an ascendants soul is so powerful that they can avoid Hood's grasp, then we have to assume that Andarist's soul is just lingering. Wait, I've got it---Andarist's soul waited until Cutter, Apsalar and Cot left the island and possessed and resurrected one of the dead Malazans, then joined Traveller as Ereko. Totally ridiculous.

[Aptorian]

First off Andarist has renounced the power of his blood and grown old. I don't think he matches up to the power level of Rake, Ruin or Scabby.

Second of all I don't think Andarist cared to stick around. He was tired and weary of the mortal realm. I think his sould returned to Darkness or went through Hoods Gate, what ever Andii do when they die on Wu.

[Optimus Prime]

Andarist's only reason for fighting was protecting the younger Andii...I don't think he gave a shit about the throne or anything else....

Apt is also right about the respective power levels of the three brothers Dark. Do we actually even have confirmation that Andarist ever was soletaken? DId he drink the blood of Tiam like Rake and Silchas did?

[Mentalist]

supposedly...
when describing Ruin, it says that he drank the deepest of tiam's blood of the three MD's sons... now this COULD mean that Andarist drank none, but then why mention him at all?

[Venerus]

Aptorian;292155 said:

In other words, like scabby, Ruins soul would still be on the loose, probably able to posses another creature or maybe even recreate a new physical form.

Although it seems like that was only the case for Sabandari because of Gothos' ritual (according to Mael, anyway) whereas Ruin sounds like he's on all the time.

Maybe Ruin is more comparable to Raest in power, and wouldn't mind getting blown to shreds and soul-hopping, and Scabandari is down there along with the more plebeian folk like a new deck god -level of power.

What's the significance of Andarist being able to wield Vengeance/Grief, btw? Just that he can badass it up w/out a dragon's blood's help?

[Aptorian]

Andarist couldn't use Vengeance properly. That was the entire point. Apparently, if he had had the right stuff, the will, the drive, the single mindedness, then he would had been unbeatable, at least faced with the Edur attackers.

[Optimus Prime]

Aptorian;292195 said:

Andarist couldn't use Vengeance properly. That was the entire point. Apparently, if he had had the right stuff, the will, the drive, the single mindedness, then he would had been unbeatable, at least faced with the Edur attackers.

Exactly. That entire passage in HoC gave us so many questions. What the fuck happened to Andarist to make him that way? How much bitterness is between the three brothers? Did Rake give Andarist the sword? Were they still on decent terms at the time of Rake's killing of Draconus? I love that little part of HoC.