[HoosierDaddy]

It is highly probable that my opinion is worth its weight in gold.

[Terez]

I <3 Cadsuane...

[HoosierDaddy]

I'll clarify and qualify my statement, compared to the other Aes Sedai, Cadsuane, in my golden opinion, is tolerable. I think being able to channel is directly related to the douchebag factor.

[Illuyankas]

I can't stand Cadsuane. She's this legendary figure amongst Aes Sedai and decides to help the Dragon Reborn resist insanity for as long as possible. She decides to do this by the odd tactic of getting him as angry as possible so his ability to give meaningful orders is impaired, demeaning him in front of his commanders so they respect him and his commands less, failing to give advice unless he begs for it in a manner designed to make sure he doesn't bother, rendering the entire point of her being there useless. Thousands of Rand's soldier's lives could have been spared if Cadsuane had picked a less utterly fuckwitted way of assisting him. Yes, he needs to be more 'human' with the crying and the laughing and all that. NO, THAT IS NOT HOW TO DO IT YOU'VE JUST HELP KILL ALL THOSE MEN BECAUSE THE ADVICE YOU WITHHELD FOR STUPID STUPID REASONS COULD HAVE PERSUADED RAND NOT TO DO 'IDIOTIC ACT HE DIDN'T SOUND OUT TO HIS ADVISORS BECAUSE NONE OF THEM ARE WORTH A DAMN' #765867905

I just want Moiraine to come back and uppercut her. Is that too much to ask?


@HD: OK. Understandable, even if I still disagree.

This post has been edited by Illuyankas: 02 August 2009 - 11:45 PM

[HoosierDaddy]

What incident are you talking about? The Seanchan fight in PoD?

She does stupid shit, however, I consider her stupid shit to be slightly less stupid then say.... kidnapping the Dragon Reborn. Fail. I hope Moraine comes back and uppercuts Nynaeve while holding her hair back by the braid, scissor kicking Faile in her huge nose, after having ninja-starred Egwene in her swollen ass.

[Terez]

HoosierDaddy, on Aug 2 2009, 06:36 PM, said:

I'll clarify and qualify my statement, compared to the other Aes Sedai, Cadsuane, in my golden opinion, is tolerable. I think being able to channel is directly related to the douchebag factor.

haha, of course it is. Cause that's the way RJ set up his world - the women are the chauvinist pigs of society, having ruled the world for the last 3000 years from the Great Vagina of Randland:





Specifically, from the great white phallic object rising from the center.

You people just don't get it, do you?

[HoosierDaddy]

Get what, Terez? The reason why most of the Aes Sedai characters are... good? You are right. I don't get it.

[Terez]

Jeez, some people don't have a sense of humor...

[HoosierDaddy]

I found the giant quivering vagina analogy funny, as well as the Aes Sedai living in a phallic symbol. I didn't "get" the last bit, so....

[Slow Ben]

I'm just gonna jump in and agree here, a lot of the women in these books make them harder to read.

The best part about the time i did a re-read was being able to skim over the parts with them.

That being said, they're still enjoyable books. Mainly thanks to Mat.

This post has been edited by Slow Ben: 03 August 2009 - 01:50 AM

[globish rip]

can't stand Cadsuane. She's this legendary figure amongst Aes Sedai and decides to help the Dragon Reborn resist insanity for as long as possible. She decides to do this by the odd tactic of getting him as angry as possible so his ability to give meaningful orders is impaired, demeaning him in front of his commanders so they respect him and his commands less, failing to give advice unless he begs for it in a manner designed to make sure he doesn't bother, rendering the entire point of her being there useless.

loool - u clearly have some unresolved issues here - but i think when cadsuane was written in it was suggested that she had been sittin back and data mining the sitch for a minute or two and decided that vague contempt and calculated indifference were the best tactics to take. and like maybe u dont think this was the "best" route but its obv being written as the "right" one so... lol fictional characters. also everything makes rand angry~ hes crazy

i dig cadsuane cuz shes like a mad men character ruthlessly zingy but also a bro plus shes wrapped up in her privledge and wry self-absorbtion so u cant really h8 her. also i like her blase high-handedness towards all the teenage hysterics that populate the series. good to have someone around thats rolling their eyes @ this stuff

and shes pretty badass - i dont think the cleansing wouldve been successful w/o her and it seemed like she was the one to organize and staff the defense - this was pretty much the only successful operation that the light has pulled off in like four books btw

but the best female character is clearly verin

[Terez]

I can't blame Cadsuane for being the way she is, because she's had to put up with idiot Aes Sedai for so many years, it's no wonder she came to think of herself as being superior (she's obviously more clever than most of them, and she fled Tar Valon to avoid being made Amyrlin - who can blame her?) She clearly realizes that Rand is important (more important than her), but she feels she has something to offer him, and she's obviously right. Why should she put up with his hysterics?

[Cougar]

Terez, on Aug 3 2009, 11:10 AM, said:

I can't blame Cadsuane for being the way she is, because she's had to put up with idiot Aes Sedai for so many years, it's no wonder she came to think of herself as being superior (she's obviously more clever than most of them, and she fled Tar Valon to avoid being made Amyrlin - who can blame her?) She clearly realizes that Rand is important (more important than her), but for some baffling reason is unable to offer any meaningful advice or assistance that makes her seem pleasant, helpful, resonable or in anyway displaying a single charactersitic that doesn't make you want to put the book on a music stand, so that you have both hands free to punch the wall screaming "WHY ARE YOU SUCH A BITCH, THE FATE OF THE WORLD IS AT STAKE, STOP BEHAVING LIKE THE BE ALL AND END ALL OF EXISTENCE IS YOUR FUCKING PRIDE, PUT THAT FUCKING TEA CUP DOWN YOU OLD COW OR I'LL OP FORCE KICK YOU SQUARE IN THE CLUNGE".

I'd have worded it like this.

[Cause]

Terez. Who killed Asmodean?

I hate Cadsuane. I see the point of her character, I know what she has to do but if she ever succeeds in her threat to spank Rand I will throw the book on the floor kill Bian Sanderson and go to RJs Grave and defile it. I also cant help but feel that the news that elayne is pregnant or seeing Tam will be what helps him.

That reminds me. Terez, where is Tam. Why does he never seem to be around even after several times the plot has taken us to the two rivers. Has anyone told him his son is the dragon reborn. You think he would go to him.

[Terez]

Cougar, on Aug 3 2009, 05:34 AM, said:

Terez, on Aug 3 2009, 11:10 AM, said:

I can't blame Cadsuane for being the way she is, because she's had to put up with idiot Aes Sedai for so many years, it's no wonder she came to think of herself as being superior (she's obviously more clever than most of them, and she fled Tar Valon to avoid being made Amyrlin - who can blame her?) She clearly realizes that Rand is important (more important than her), but for some baffling reason is unable to offer any meaningful advice or assistance that makes her seem pleasant, helpful, resonable or in anyway displaying a single charactersitic that doesn't make you want to put the book on a music stand, so that you have both hands free to punch the wall screaming "WHY ARE YOU SUCH A BITCH, THE FATE OF THE WORLD IS AT STAKE, STOP BEHAVING LIKE THE BE ALL AND END ALL OF EXISTENCE IS YOUR FUCKING PRIDE, PUT THAT FUCKING TEA CUP DOWN YOU OLD COW OR I'LL OP FORCE KICK YOU SQUARE IN THE CLUNGE".

I'd have worded it like this.

She's offered a great deal of meaningful advice and assistance, not least being that Rand needs to stop acting like he can't trust anyone. That was the whole reason she tracked him down in Far Madding. If not for Cadsuane, he would still be in a prison cell there. If not for Cadsuane, he'd have never accepted the help of the Aes Sedai that she brought with her - Alanna had to beg him to let her help him. If not for Cadsuane, Rand was going to try to cleanse saidin with only Lan to guard his and Nynaeve's backs - that's why he went to Far Madding in the first place...to kill the four Asha'man who attacked him in Cairhien so he wouldn't have to worry about them sneaking up on him. As for the Forsaken, he was just going to cross his fingers and hope they didn't show up. Cadsuane marshaled the tools and soldiers on hand and gave him a seamless circle of defense while he did the deed, and she Healed Nynaeve when the girl almost lost consciousness from the strain. He needs guidance, and she gives it to him. Honestly, Rand is the one being a bitch while the whole world is at stake. No one really blames him, as he's got a lot on his shoulders, but he needs someone with an ego as strong as Cadsuane's to keep him in line because everyone else is too fucking scared to try. His friends would be of benefit if he didn't keep sending them away, and his women, while undoubtedly necessary to keep him from going 100% batshit insane, have a tendency to support him even when he's wrong because they are smitten.

I admire Cadsuane for having the guts to hold her own, the first time she met Rand, while he surrounded her with his Asha'man and threatened her, and I admire her for her cheek since. She knows he's strong enough to crush her where she stands. The way she acts with him shows that she trusts him with her life, and that's more than Rand can say for most of his 'supporters'.

[Terez]

Cause, on Aug 3 2009, 05:38 AM, said:

Terez. Who killed Asmodean?

Aviendha. Really, I don't know or care who killed him, but it's fun to argue that she did it. All the usual suspects are just meh.

Cause said:

That reminds me. Terez, where is Tam. Why does he never seem to be around even after several times the plot has taken us to the two rivers. Has anyone told him his son is the dragon reborn. You think he would go to him.

He was in Knife of Dreams, at the Battle of Malden (where Perrin allied with the Seanchan to defeat the Shaido and free Faile). Perrin called him there to lead the battle while he went into the city to get his wife. And yeah, Tam knows:

RJ said:

TITLE - Knife of Dreams
CHAPTER: 29 - The Last Knot

Frowning, Tam watched Grady vanish into the gray murk. “I could wish I’d had some other way to get here,” he said. “Fellows like him visited the Two Rivers a while back. One called himself Mazrim Taim, a name we’d all heard. A false Dragon. Only now he wears a black coat with fancy embroidery and calls himself the M’Hael. They talked everywhere about teaching men to channel, about this Black Tower.” He freighted the words with sourness. “The Village Councils tried to put a stop to it, and the Women’s Circles, but they ended up taking above forty men and boys with them. Thank the Light some listened to sense, or I think they’d have had ten times that.” His gaze shifted to Perrin. “Taim said Rand sent him. He said Rand is the Dragon Reborn.” There was a touch of questioning in that, perhaps a hope for denial, perhaps a demand to know why Perrin had kept silent.

Those hues whirled in Perrin’s head, but he batted them away and answered by not answering. What was, was. “Nothing to be done about it now, Tam.” According to Grady and Neald, the Black Tower did not just let men go once they signed on.

Sadness entered Tam’s scent, though he let nothing show on his face. He knew the fate of men who could channel. Grady and Neald claimed the male half of the Source was clean, now, but Perrin could not see how that could be. What was, was. You did the job you were given, followed the road you had to follow, and that was that. There was no point complaining about blisters, or rocks underfoot.

Perrin didn't confirm it, but his silence on the issue was loud and clear.

Also, he's been there pretty much every time the plot has brought us to the Two Rivers. He was there in The Shadow Rising when Perrin returned, the whole time, and he was there in the scene when Perrin decided to leave in the prologue of Lord of Chaos. He stayed behind when they left, but Perrin came to get him, and there will undoubtedly be a reunion with Rand before the end.

[Cougar]

If I had an experienced, intelligent advisor I'd rather they actually offered help, explaining rationally why it was being given and outlining the potential benefits rather than allowing thier own arrognance to rule and turning everything into a series of pointless contests. My issue with Cadusane is not the quality of her advice or experience, as you point out, at length, she has been highly useful in stopping him making chit decisions (sometimes) but it would have taken less time if she had offered advice in a more constructive manner, won his trust and proven herself.

As with almost all Aes Sedai relationships they constantly struggle for who can be the most aloof and maintain the upperhand at the expense of problems being resolved with any expediency, the best example of this is the realtionship between the Seafolk Windfinders and the Aes Sedai which reads like a fight at a playschool over the last tea set or a protracted disagreement about the Custard Creams at the WI. I understand RJ wanted to make them all stubborn bitches who always think they are right, but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

[Terez]

Cadsuane didn't really have the opportunity to 'win' Rand's trust, with the way he was acting toward her. She observed herself that Elaida had made her job nearly impossible - she found Rand right after Dumai's Wells. And obviously, she has offered her advice in the most constructive manner possible, since Rand has asked her to be his advisor. The approach you suggest would probably have failed miserably.

[Cougar]

Terez, on Aug 3 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

Cadsuane didn't really have the opportunity to 'win' Rand's trust, with the way he was acting toward her. She observed herself that Elaida had made her job nearly impossible - she found Rand right after Dumai's Wells. And obviously, she has offered her advice in the most constructive manner possible, since Rand has asked her to be his advisor. The approach you suggest would probably have failed miserably.

It's not real life, so no it wouldn't have failed, if Jordan had wanted it to he could have made it work and had her be less of an irritating sack of shit. Fact is he's written a pile of irritating characters for the sheer hell of it and it retards the story for 3 books while they toss each other off.

[Cause]

Terz I remeber the part you quoted. Its just he is always in the background the deep background. He is blademastr, something pering could use but he never teps forward and perrin never calls him. Also if my father found out I was the second comin in the flesh I like to think he would come to me or have something to say.

Considering the aount of econdary characers I have had to deal with I cant understand why his father is given no time at all. Too bad well never get that prequel wit him in it I suppose