[Kulp Diet]

I still have yet to meet a woman who tugs her braid or "sniff's" as an expletive. But RJ's universe is full of them. I also think the whole Rand getting laid while his other two squeezes experienced the telrhan-hemmorhoid orgasm or whatever was a low point in character development.

[Terez]

Zelech;332994 said:

Yeah, Asmodean's death seems to captivate a lot more interest...which I too don't comprehend.

But it means there was someone there, near Rand, who is/was a very important person.

Does it? With as many people that were eavesdropping on Rand on the march out of the Waste, and afterward, I wouldn't count on it. There are several people on Rand's side who would kill Asmodean in a heartbeat if they knew who he was. Moiraine taught the Wise Ones how to eavesdrop in The Shadow Rising. We learn in The Fires of Heaven Ch. 15 that Moiraine suggested that, since the Wise Ones could watch Rand's dreams, they give him some privacy, but the first thing Rand learned from Asmodean was how to shield his dreams, and there's no indication that they shielded their conversations as a rule. Moiraine knew. Who else knew? Aviendha was right there.

Zelech said:

Why didn't they assassinate Rand? Are they on Rand's side?

Because there were orders from the Dark One not to kill him, for various vague reasons.

[Macros]

Terez;333007 said:

Because there were orders from the Dark One not to kill him, for various money spinning plot killing reasons.

corrected for accuracy

[Terez]

Macros;333110 said:

corrected for accuracy

Spin it however you like it. The reasons are vague, but still interesting, imo (Moridin's thoughts on it in the prologue of The Path of Daggers are particularly interesting).

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Macros;333110 said:

corrected for accuracy

:lachen70:

I think you're on to something!

[Optimus Prime]

When I look back on WoT, I think fondly of the first 6 books and just pick and choose the decent to great parts of the last 5.....because they could've been edited into 3 good books instead of 5 drawn out, Faile tainted crap bags.

[Cougar]

RJ ran out of unique personalities before the group left the two rivers in the Eye of the World.

Also I don't care how Tavereen Rand is there's no way Min, Elayne and Aviendha would put up with him nailing all three of them.

[Terez]

I used to have a reluctance to read Perrin's points of view in the later books, but after a few reads (I don't skip stuff) I started to really enjoy those bits. The plotline took a long time to resolve, but there was still good stuff happening in those chapters, and I think the reluctance for Perrin's chapters I used to have was solely inspired by the frustration of the plotline not being resolved. But in the end, I was okay with it, largely because of the unexpected bonus of a Seanchan alliance and taking out Masema's army that was in the bargain, and also because of the subtle yet fascinating transformation that Perrin went through in the process. A quick resolution to the plot would have required something like a raid, and wouldn't have accomplished all of those things.

And I like Faile. I wanted to smack her to yesteryear back in the The Shadow Rising, but even then, I understood where she was coming from.

[Optimus Prime]

Cougar;333131 said:

RJ ran out of unique personalities before the group left the two rivers in the Eye of the World.

Also I don't care how Tavereen Rand is there's no way Min, Elayne and Aviendha would put up with him nailing all three of them.

Yeah...a little bit of the respect I had for him went out the window with the whole "Foursome" sex thing. Ridiculous, even for fantasy because it comes off as a fat guy who just wants to write about his dirtiest lusts.

[Terez]

Cougar;333131 said:

Also I don't care how Tavereen Rand is there's no way Min, Elayne and Aviendha would put up with him nailing all three of them.

You think that because you've been socialized in the here and now - throughout history, the most common marriage arrangement by far has been of one man and more than one woman. It was difficult for Elayne and Min to accept, but Min had the advantage of the viewing - she knew as soon as she met Rand that she would share him with two other women - and for Aviendha, having sister-wives was perfectly normal. Elayne had the hardest time with it, but she knew of Min's viewing and Aiel practices, and Aviendha's submission to her didn't hurt.

[Terez]

Xander;333135 said:

Yeah...a little bit of the respect I had for him went out the window with the whole "Foursome" sex thing. Ridiculous, even for fantasy because it comes off as a fat guy who just wants to write about his dirtiest lusts.

Don't forget about the Greens.

[Macros]

A televisation would be good though
I cant like Faile, shes the uppity child who didnt get thumped enough in her youth, I honestly wanted the aiel to kill her and see perrin freak out and explode. Of the main stroylines the only one that held my interest was mats, becaused it involves thom and mat. They seem to be alone in the world in that they don't cower from the womenfolk and aes sedai in particular. Rands to much of a pansy, perrin is a douche "I dont wnat faqile/ the wolfyness, but so do, but I dont, I dont want to be a lord, but I do but I dont. Where is faile? GRRR emo angst rant." Shut up please perrin.
The whole series could have been comprehensively wrapped up in 8 books, maybe 9 if we do include some of the nonsensical arcs. Everry minor thing is too drawn out, theres plot holes you could lose a city in and the baddies are just retarded, I dont care if its a display of how evil breeds madness and paranoia, we get t, but if they pulled their thumb out of their ass for a second rand and co would be dead, ded, dead.

[Optimus Prime]

He was too specific as well. Look RJ, It's great you've carefully crafted all these cultures...but I really don't give a fuck about how the dresses of the Ebou Dari women are cut...or what type of print is on the coats of the Tairens...shut the hell up and have

Spoiler

Rand go fucking mad already and blow the fuck out of everything!!!! ARGH!!!!!! RAND SMASH!!!!! :zanth:

[Terez]

Macros;333139 said:

theres plot holes you could lose a city in

Such as?

[Cougar]

Terez;333137 said:

You think that because you've been socialized in the here and now - throughout history, the most common marriage arrangement by far has been of one man and more than one woman.

I think that is irrelevant in the fantasy setting, it is exceptional in their world at that time for Min and Elayne.I can't think what Aiel marriage customs were like off the top of my head.

I'm more concerned by the willing acceptance of 2 strong female characters, Aviendha and Elayne that they have to share Rand, especially when up to that point they have a veritable fixation with men doing what they say.

[Macros]

First up, I liked WoT when I first starting reading it, but beyond the first few books it became obiouvs he was just playing it out. Imagine a race, and instead of making each book a step towards the finish line, the last few, each book, halfed the distance, but never got to looking like finishing.

OK, travelling, don't you have to know your destination when doing it? (I mean traveling via channeling, not generic travelling) Yet taim (the douche) can just pop up at the oppourtune moment to save rand.
Warders are the uber fighters yet unconjoined (i forget the joining to aes sedia, bonding!! got it) unbonded younglings kick their asses.
The dark lord is an certified idiot who could have removed rand a hundred times, how did he get to be such a threat that he had to be sealed in the first place? If the baddies are this incompetent, they simply could nto have pulled the shit they supposed did in lews therins time, unless thats the final kicker, lews therin is actually shit'an!!
Seriously, how pathetic are they, theyre the biggest, baddest people around, the power level of aes sedai has been dropping, now ok we've got power players coming back in, but cad and few ashaman/ aes sedai held the forsaken off in book 9. Not so powerful methinks.
The Aes Sedai, have played the continent like a master puppeteer for 3000 years, but they act like spoiled children, always coniving and backstabbing, they couldn't hold together for 6 months realisitically.
Also, if women can't detect men channeling, how does morainne know Samon was belal? even if she somehow realised he was a forsaken, how did she know it was belal? they havent been seen in, oh, thousands of years,
Lets look at the stone of tear, hasn't fallen in like forever, in ONE NIGHT not only to rand and a few aiel get in there, mat, and ahost of other misfits clamber aboard in a totaly seperate invasion. Also when Rand is chasing Ish around, why didnt he jsut travell away? rand doesnt know how to.
Tear again (sorry If I'm focusing on tear, its one of the few areas I remember well) The girls were kidnapped for bait, yes? bait for who, rand is totally unaware of their presence, the "eaver of nets" wouldn't do well a fisherman, his net weaving is totally imcpmtent. And in his time ruling tear, he didnt find a MASSIVE COLLECTION of angreal right under his arse? pulease.
And why does everone want Callandor? its a death trap. Plot device written after the fact I think.
Ok, enoguh with the hole in the ground that is tear back to the forsaken, sammel is some kind of super general isnt he? hes a bit crap. They send aiel to kill mat, the only person who CAN'T detect shadowspawn, why not simply grey man him. The plot devices are ridiculous, the only thing that can kill the super assassin the gollum is mat, who does it focus on instead of wiping out the good guys? mat. Mat is the only one can't detect the shadowpawn or whatever so they focus on perrin and rand, please these guys are SUPERVILLANS not james bond I shall place you in an easily escapble situation villans. get a clue!
Oh and aes sedai are lying bitches, detroying their little code, no quote obvious ly as i dont ownth e damn books, but I've noticed plenty of their "twisting the truth" moments are simply lies which should make them explode or someithng ridiculous. Even when they're covering for each other, or pretending people are out farming cabbages, they have to lie do this, pfft.
now that my memory is exhausted, I did a bit of googling for plot holes, jsut to be contrite. I did enjoy the WoT initially but people who say its the best thing since sliced bread annoy me, jordan has a great imagination but hes not a good writter, and given the TIME he put into each damned book, I would expect hese holes to be filled.

Lan talking about Rands sword:

"Many that survived the breaking of the world were DESTROYED by men who feared and hated aes sedai work..."

a bit further in the same paragraph:

"The reality is enough. Blades that will NOT shatter or break..."

ORLY?

OOO a good one, regarding the ridiculous sub pot of perrin faile, and its ridiculous solution. So he dumps a ton of forkroot into the water. So all the channellers drink it at once? convenient. there isnt a slow realisation that hey this ater tastes funky and minty, and some of our channelers are fucked up.

What happened the horn of valere? once jordan realised it was too damned powerful like calandor he dumped it uncerimonisouly somewere out of the way, thats whta happened it.

in a stedding verin "delves" an oiger who travelled the waysa dn confirms his mind is gone, doesnt that require channeling? oops

one of my own, why arent the gardeners going mad? they arent in their stedding

Perrin and Rand have not communicated with each other since book 7

Mat and Rand have not communicated with each other since book 6

Egwene and Rand have not communicated with each other since book 6

why doesnt rand jump over and say hello? numerous plots would have been instantly resolved with a quick phone call. Egwenes not allowed to for some dicks law regarding putting herself in danger, but wait, doesnt she do JUST THAT and get captured? and what about dropping lan oiff, someone else should be doing this shit, again plot device to gain more milk from the cow.

Why are they so distressed about a waygate in shadar logoth? trollocs are shit scared oft he place.

Now read this, when Rand goes after Sammael, Sammael makes a gateway and goes to Shadar Logoth, of all places. The reason for this was clarified by Mordin who, after saving Rand, tells him that "Sammael has always liked to destroy a person in front of his triumphs. Lacking that, somewhere the man has marked as his would do" (ACoS: Chapter 41 paperback pp.848). So, Sammael chose to go to Shadar Logoth because he saw Rand's weave around the waygate. But, how could Sammeal see it, as the weave was inverted and visible only to Rand's eyes (ACoS: Chapter 41 paperback pp.850).

You see there is a chain of events that do not make any sense. First, Rand going and protecting THAT particular waygate out of all the waygates in the world and leaving his markings there. Second, Sammael choosing to stage the final encounter in Shadar Logoth, as he saw those markings. How was Sammael able to discover Rand's weave? What was he doing in Shadar Logoth, a dead city, in the first place? I mean, it would have made sense if we were told that Sammael took his daily morning walks in Shadar Logoth. We would have deduced that it was probably then he found the weave. And how was Sammael able to see a weave that was invisible to all others but Rand. Even if he saw the weave, how did he know it was Rand's handiwork? Surly Rand did not sign it. "Rand al'Thor, the biggest git in the world".

Whitecloaks are against anything related to the Tower and that includes people who are trained there. After they encounter Galad, here is what Elayne tells Nynaeve (TFoH chapter 16, paperback pp.313) "........ That is the law in Amadicia, and Whitecloak law too. Aes Sedai are outlawed here, and so is any woman who has ever trained in the Tower. Mother met Ailron once to sign a trade treaty, and they had to do it in Altra because mother could not legally enter Amadicia."

After this, I do not know why Pedron Niall let Morgase enter, not only Amadicia, but also the Fortress of Light itself. And after getting training from the Warders how did they let Galad become a Whitecloak. Not only that, they also made him a ranking officer.

I could go on, but my lunch beckons

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Excellent work. Moar!

[Skywalker]

Awesome work, Mac... rep given.

But I feel I need to defend some bits of WOT from your onslaught

Macros;333198 said:

Also when Rand is chasing Ish around, why didnt he jsut travell away? rand doesnt know how to.

Ishamael was toying with Rand at that point... he wanted to get into a fight and so left a gate open for Rand to follow through?

Macros;333198 said:

Tear again (sorry If I'm focusing on tear, its one of the few areas I remember well) The girls were kidnapped for bait, yes? bait for who, rand is totally unaware of their presence, the "eaver of nets" wouldn't do well a fisherman, his net weaving is totally imcpmtent. And in his time ruling tear, he didnt find a MASSIVE COLLECTION of angreal right under his arse? pulease.

The girls were kidnapped as bait for the Two Rivers boys... the forsaken have no idea at this point which one of the three is actually the Dragon Reborn. They just trust that Moiraine will find out at some point and the youths will rush to the rescue...

Also, wasn't the trap set by B'elal and not Moghedien who was the weaver of nets? I forget.

Macros;333198 said:

Lan talking about Rands sword:

"Many that survived the breaking of the world were DESTROYED by men who feared and hated aes sedai work..."

a bit further in the same paragraph:

"The reality is enough. Blades that will NOT shatter or break..."

ORLY?

Um... melting works? Kind of nitpicking but a sword that cannot shatter or break can always be destroyed some other way.

Macros;333198 said:

Whitecloaks are against anything related to the Tower and that includes people who are trained there. After they encounter Galad, here is what Elayne tells Nynaeve (TFoH chapter 16, paperback pp.313) "........ That is the law in Amadicia, and Whitecloak law too. Aes Sedai are outlawed here, and so is any woman who has ever trained in the Tower. Mother met Ailron once to sign a trade treaty, and they had to do it in Altra because mother could not legally enter Amadicia."

After this, I do not know why Pedron Niall let Morgase enter, not only Amadicia, but also the Fortress of Light itself. And after getting training from the Warders how did they let Galad become a Whitecloak. Not only that, they also made him a ranking officer.

Morgase couldn't be killed because the Whitecloaks (though zealots) are also political realists. You simply do not kill the queen of a neighbouring country without good reason - especially when she could be used as a pawn. And in all fairness, they did try to kill her several times before she was on the run.

Galad was leverage over the queen without him realizing it. They made him a ranking officer in a very Godfather-esque move... we take good care of your son - see that you don't make us do otherwise. There was a scene in some book where she felt the bile rising or sniffed or clutched her skirts or something when she realized the White Tower has one of her sons (Gawyn) and the Whitecloaks have the other (Galad). Then her maid lady made some tart freaky moral of the fable comment (The stork that hovers over the water is like the shark under it, perhaps?) and that was that.

Skywalker - wants sharks with frikking lasers :cool:

[Cougar]

I'll add:

if the creator went to the trouble of sealing Shaitan in his other-dimesional prison at the moment of creation, why doesn't he just sort the bore out himself? Don't tell me it's because the creator doesn't interfere, that's bollocks, he talks to Rand in the first book.

Also there is a scene from Rands memories of the Aiel where the Aes Sedai are discussing the fact that all the male channelers have gone mad, they have all of Lews Therins stuff and are going to create the eye of the world, how? The male half is already tainted isn't it? Moreover, one of the foresaken males (Sammael or Ishy) levelled the great hall prior to the sealing of the bore which sent the male channelers mad. The scene is after the sealing of the bore but they are sitting in the great hall in Paren Diseen.

[Abyss]

The madness isn't consistent in degree and staedings [sp?] removed it temporarily.

- Abyss, steadfast in madness.