[Skywalker]

james9700;280824 said:

I like this thread, seems better than the 97th thread arguing is Dassem Traveller.

SCORE!



So anyone think Hood is a Jaghut?

Skywalker - clapping!

[Gwynn ap Nudd]

Aptorian;280675 said:

EDIT: Funny though, they know Killy (this is speculation from RG) and she hasn't walked the earth since... well, the RG Prologue. That would actually lead me to believe that T and C were probably among the eleint that vied for a piece of shadow. They were probably killed by Rake or Killy.

It's a pretty safe bet that dragons are as immortal/long lived as any elder race (if not K'rul's plan of linking specific dragons to warrens was a very bad idea). So, whether or not T and C were involved in the mayhem in shadow is, as you said, pure speculation. It would be easily conceivable that they were around then, watching from the sidelines, and made thier play for the throne of shadow after Killy disappeared from the scene when they thought it was safer.

[Lisheo]

The Dragons are quite probably immortal, as Tiam's blood grants immortality. T and C dont seem the type to get involved in a fray like the war in shadow, but you never know, perhaps death humbled them. Perhaps Edgewalker himself killed them, maybe that was why he was "busy".

[Aptorian]

There wasn't a so much a war in shadow as there were oppertunists trying to get a piece of the cake in my opinion. Scavengers of power.

[Lisheo]

Hmm thats a better way of thinking bout it... I wonder if anyone actually managed to claim a fragment of Shadow back then.

[Blues]

Lisheo;281567 said:

The Dragons are quite probably immortal, as Tiam's blood grants immortality.

Do feral dragons have Tiam's blood? Its just the soletaken right?

[Gwynn ap Nudd]

In terms of being descendants, all dragons have Tiam's blood. I really don't think there is any argument to be made against dragons being immortal in general.

[Lisheo]

Tiam was the Matron of the entire draconic race, I think its fair to say theyre all descended from her. The Soletaken were other races that just drank her blood each time she died (or was killed, i wonder?)

[Mentalist]

But, you know, then again, all those dragons in SD apparently died of natural causes... making the "immortality" suggestion questionable...

[Aptorian]

I doubt the Dragons died from the flu or old age. Either they starved to death or they actually chose to give up, they just lied down and died, passing on into the Jaghut death realm.

[MTS]

that whole Tiam reborn thing is a really interesting mystery...i wonder if it'll be fleshed out in either SE's or ICE's books.

and wat's Edgewalker's deal? having two babbling draconic spirits as agents seem indicative of a fair bit of power at his command, yet Cotillion states "that hoary old sack of bones" (lol) couldnt fight his way out of a hay basket or some such(cant remember the exact quote, but it's when Cotillion is talking to Panek).

[Adjutant Stormy~]

Well it is very much illuminated in Night of Knives. But here's the spoiler.

Spoiler

Edgewalker is bound, technically, to the defense of shadow, enslaved like all of the previous would-be claimants. I believe he wields influence because he is loosely bound, allowed to roam about Shadow, even learn of its secrets, whereas many are bound in place (the three dragons we've seen), and know nothing beyond their chains. He is the logical choice for a champion of Shadow's own cause (irrespective of whoever sits on the throne, he would say.)

As for who will write about it? That'd be ICE. In NoK intro, SE says that they've divvyed up the story. SE to go forward. ICE to go backward. Or something like that.

[MTS]

oh, well i haven't read NoK; i live in australia, and am not sure if its been published down under as of yet. and i probably won't get a hardback; im a teenager and as such hoard my money like a dragon does it's horde (lol no pun intended).

but if ICE is going back, then i'm looking forward to reading his books. the origins of the empire and the malazan world's mythology is fascinating, and it will be nice to get a more detailed glimpse of it. oh and the crimson guard too. they rule! lol

[Thelomen Toblerone]

An interesting passage in BH is where Curdle&Tel are asking Apsalar about what they can possess, and mention the creatures from starvald demelain. They mention one in particular, Luthuras, and start to describe them before being cut off- they sound draconic.

It seems likely they're from SD originally, seeing as they're confirmed not Andii and possess plenty of knowledge about SD, even possibly referring to it when they call their own realm a wasteland or some such, which fits with what we see in RG. Thus, if from SD, the options we know of seem to be eleint and the three other native creatures they mention. They dont seem to fit personality-wise (in my personal view) with other Eleint we've met, and coupled with their preference for smaller draconic-like bodies and sneaking about, I'm tempted to think they were originally Luthuras. But it's all conjecture ofc.

[MTS]

yeah i dont think they were Eleint to begin with; i cant see Baran managing to kill two Eleint (for thats who did it im assuming cos Baran caught them trying to get into Shadowkeep).

anyway, perhaps they now prefer smaller draconic-like bodies because theyre taking a new tack in their clandestine activities i.e. not being a huge, hulking dragon or wyval for instance lol. and because they are from SD.

but i digress. ur conjecture certainly does have merit TT. its perfectly plausible, and logical too. yet somehow, for all our theorising, i think SE will still manage to surprise us with their identities. he's just that good.

[Chris]

If we can forget for a moment what T/C are, I'd like to ask where is Apsalar and are T/C still accompanying her? Apsalar was last seen in BH in Malaz City taking Pearl out. T/C are only in one scene in RG when they have a conversation with Banaschar when Tavore's army is still at the island after Sinn stops the approaching wall of ice. T/C mention having a discussion with "Not-Not-Apsalar" who appears to be Lostara Yil. I don't remember T/C appearing anywhere else in the series without Apsalar. So, assuming T/C are still accompanying Apsalar, she is still with Tavore's army. But where is she? C/T have always been reluctant to leave Apsalar (always talking about staying with her, even standing over her corpse after she dies). I initially thought Apsalar was posing as Masan Gilani, but that theory didn't hold up after a second reading of RG, even though both women are described as beautiful and Kanese. So if C/T are keeping an eye on Apsalar for someone, where is she?

[Mentalist]

She's not
She stayed back in Malaz city and will most likely appear in TtH to try to find Cutter/Crokus
T/C only got the 1 scene in RG where they were commenting on Banaschar holding D'rek in him and then them dissaperaing (think they left the ship to pursue their own agenda on Letheras)
oh,and Masan Gilani is Dal-Honese, I believe, not Kanese.

[Ammanas]

Chris;288205 said:

If we can forget for a moment what T/C are, I'd like to ask where is Apsalar and are T/C still accompanying her? Apsalar was last seen in BH in Malaz City taking Pearl out. T/C are only in one scene in RG when they have a conversation with Banaschar when Tavore's army is still at the island after Sinn stops the approaching wall of ice. T/C mention having a discussion with "Not-Not-Apsalar" who appears to be Lostara Yil. I don't remember T/C appearing anywhere else in the series without Apsalar. So, assuming T/C are still accompanying Apsalar, she is still with Tavore's army. But where is she? C/T have always been reluctant to leave Apsalar (always talking about staying with her, even standing over her corpse after she dies). I initially thought Apsalar was posing as Masan Gilani, but that theory didn't hold up after a second reading of RG, even though both women are described as beautiful and Kanese. So if C/T are keeping an eye on Apsalar for someone, where is she?

Apsalar's whereabouts are unknown AFAIK. We last saw her talking to Shadowthrone in BH, he told her she was free and she gave him kalam's knives and strolled away.

[The Dark Wanderer]

Don't we see her walking into Coop's past Braven Tooth and Temper? At least that's who I always assumed it was, but may be wrong and anyway it's just pedantry as she was/is still in Malaz City.

[Sinisdar Toste]

pretty sure that was her, the rice wine, the knife under braven tooths eye, the room upstairs. all typical apsalar.