[Dancer+]

We haven't had anyone else sacrifice themselves so we can't make a direct power comparison - we are arguing who are the ten most powerful mages not who has pulled off the best display of magic in the series - Beak most likely takes the cake with that one. It's naive to assume that others aren't capable of similar exhibitions of power especially when they entirely destroy their life-force.

[D'rek]

Aptorian;278757 said:

I mentioned her. The fact that she was able to kill some of the Torrud cabal doesn't make her more powerfull than them, just more crafty.

You're not more powerfull than someone if you manage to stab them with an ottataral knife or strike them with death magic.

True, but when she appears in Baruk's study, Baruk tries to do some magic on her, and when she counters it he realizes that she is his master in the magical arts by so much that he stops trying and awaits his death.

Xander said:

You guys even thinking about Crimson Guard's bad ass mages?

From what we've seen they do seem pretty damn good. Corlo is pretty deft with Mockra, can access KG, has a bunch of nifty spells in that diadem of his, and so forth. But the mage with the 6th Blade in GotM, forget his name, he must be phenomenal. Consider QB, whom most forum members would say is pretty damn powerful with his 12 souls, well him and Kalam had trouble remaining hidden from the Tiste Andii assassin-mages, and even had to use Tay's demon to escape. And then the 6th Blade assassin-and-mage combo of Fingers (i think) and his mage were good enough to sneak up on Serrat, the best of the best of the TA assassin-mages, and they did it to her repeatedly, when she had all her defences up, and was expecting it. And she never detected a thing. That speaks volumes about how freaking good that mage must be.

[Aptorian]

A said:

True, but when she appears in Baruk's study, Baruk tries to do some magic on her, and when she counters it he realizes that she is his master in the magical arts by so much that he stops trying and awaits his death.

We don't know if this is a GotMism. If the Torrud Cabal really are undying mages that have existed for thousands of years, it would be slightly disappointing if an assassinmage just takes them out without much effort.

[D'rek]

True, unless there's some crazy backstory about how Vorcan is the long-lost great-great-great-great-great-great daughter of the last Tyrant, and even though the Tyrants were just regular mortals, Vorcan spent the whole family fortune on the best magic and assassin training in the world and other wonderful thingamajigs...

[greenteam]

A said:

But the mage with the 6th Blade in GotM, forget his name, he must be phenomenal.

his name was cowl and fingers says he was a powerful mage

[Veilside]

Silencer;278688 said:

The 12 souls are part of his innate power.
Most of them were High Mages.
That alone should put him above Tay.
Not to mention that the Pannion Mages weren't that powerful - Quick also kills a couple.
And he defeats Soletaken Dragons. Which walk all over Pannion Mages.

QB does kill a couple, but QB is protected from the warren poisoning while Tays isn't so killing about a dozen is rather impressive, that after fighting off Kallor as well.

[Lisheo]

Maybe Vorcan is the Tyrant...
And yes Cowl does seem insanely great

[Abyss]

Thoughts:

Bottle is not powerful. He's talented, he's clever, but he is purely squad mage, cadre mage at best in the sheer power department. So if you're debating top ten powerhouses, he doesn't rank.

Interestingly, in GotM, it's mentioned that Tattersail might have a decent chance if she took on Tayschrenn.

That said, Tayschrenn in NoK stands with Obo and Agayla against the Stormriders, and it's suggested a LOT of power went into that.

While Agayla is debatable, Obo seems to me to be an Ascendant, so he's likely off the list.

Vorcan is properly ON the list. Say what you will, she was sufficiently skilled to take on multiple High Mages, including some who knew she was coming, and an Andii mage-assassin for good measure.

Nil and Nether were never shown as powerhouses. They did the spirit summoning and life force channeling thing. Sorno, on the other hand, wiped out a batallion or two before taking a few arrows in the head. So he's on, they're off.

Ceda was ready to wipe out the entire race of Edur. He's so on the list.

Sinn took on the Yghatan firestorm mess and Jaghut icebergs. She's on.

Beak stopped a multiple mage conjured Hold magic death boom. Impressive. he's on, but he died in the attempt, so strength of life forces aside, he never showed us sheer power. So talented, yes. powerhouse, not so sure. He's a maybe.

Kimloc ascended the BBs in part. And apparently deflected Poliel's plague. He's on.

QB as of RG, a'duh.

Pust identifies himself as a mage of Meanas, Rashan and Thyr, plus uses Mokra. he's likely on the list, albeit sneaky about it. His priest status is a bonus. We see various Destriants use powers from their gods, but it's not the same as channeling a known warren.


- Abyss, notes that in the end, the answer is Wolverine.

[Silencer]

I like that list, Abyss.
Aside from the fact that it isn't ranked, it does give us only characters who we have credible/semi-credible evidence of their efficacy.

I therefore concur with your assessment.

[Lisheo]

I also concur. Well done.

[Abyss]

Silencer;279483 said:

I like that list, Abyss.
Aside from the fact that it isn't ranked, it does give us only characters who we have credible/semi-credible evidence of their efficacy.

I therefore concur with your assessment.

Lisheo;279662 said:

I also concur. Well done.

Acknowledgement is transitory. Rep is forever.

And i didn't rank because at heart 'ho'd win' is one of those subjective points that really all comes down to the author's purpose. If he wants Bottle to kick Tayshrenn's ass, he'll find a way to do so, and knowing SE, it will even make sense.

- Abyss, notes in any event, the answer is always Wolverine.

[Aptorian]

Or in this case Dr. Strange, the sorceror supreme.

[greenteam]

Abyss;279411 said:

Obo seems to me to be an Ascendant,

yeah got that feeling too after reading nok i like to think of him as beru

[D'rek]

There aren't enough of them to create a new thread about it, but I wonder who the best illusionist is...

Kulp conjured enormous numbers of fake citizenry when Coltaine was training the 7th;

QB did a pretty good display of demons attacking the pannions in MoI

Budryd has at least 5 sentient human-illusions, at least one of which (the scretary) probably exists 24-hours-a-day...

[Lisheo]

Budryd, of course... Or else Ammanas himself.

[Zanth13]

Aptorian;279691 said:

Or in this case Dr. Strange, the sorceror supreme.

LOL....

Dr. Strange would pawn wolverine of course...

oh and I still think Tays is number one gangsta... I mean Mangsta...Mage

[Abyss]

Zanth13;280009 said:

LOL....
Dr. Strange would pawn wolverine of course...

Don't go there. My inner comic book geek will strike you down with great wrath and mighty fury. Wolverine ALWAYS wins.

Quote

oh and I still think Tays is number one gangsta... I mean Mangsta...Mage

Never really been tested that we've seen. But note how he was 'isolated' in TB. Certainly he's not the canniest political player (look at the mess he made in Pale), and likely he had reasons for not striking directly at Rel's flunkies, but he's not untouchable. In NoK he was staggered by the force of Kellanved's arrival, and he still needed bodyguards. Dujek speculates in GotM that Tattersail could stand up to him (may have been exaggerated). Also in GotM we found out he's vulnerable thru his summonded demons. And we found out in TB that QB fooled him back in the day.

Point being, powerful tho he is, he's vulnerable and not uber-mage.

Mages generally seem to fall into the category of needing soldiers to protect them ('Always a fair exchange.'). Even QB liked to have Kalam around to do the heavy lifting - in the solo physical confrontations we've seen him in (MoI, TB), he tends to come off worse - tho the rooftop fight against the Andii in GotM, he did hold his own against an assassin mage (love that scene). But Vorcan seems to be an exception to that - she's a mage powerhouse who doesn't need others to protect her. That's telling.

- Abyss, also notes that, of course, Wolverine could take them all, drunk, smoking a cuban cigar, with both claws tied behind his back...

[Battalion]

Abyss;280241 said:

Mages generally seem to fall into the category of needing soldiers to protect them ('Always a fair exchange.'). Even QB liked to have Kalam around to do the heavy lifting - in the solo physical confrontations we've seen him in (MoI, TB), he tends to come off worse - tho the rooftop fight against the Andii in GotM, he did hold his own against an assassin mage (love that scene). But Vorcan seems to be an exception to that - she's a mage powerhouse who doesn't need others to protect her. That's telling.

I loved that scene as well!

There was a kind of awsomness around Tays as well, when we finally found out what was going on during the battle with Moonspawn. Fighting Rake with one hand and an Elder God with the other ... Baddass!

[Blues]

Battalion;280361 said:

I loved that scene as well!

There was a kind of awsomness around Tays as well, when we finally found out what was going on during the battle with Moonspawn. Fighting Rake with one hand and an Elder God with the other ... Baddass!

IMO Tays best scene comes at the end of MoI when, after getting hit with the chaos blast nonsense from Kallor, he fires off that golden wave of fire that drops 12 of the Pannion mages at once.

[Raraku]

Really thats a scene worth going thru again and again
at first didnt like Tay too much cause i thought he was the mastermind behind killing the old guard and all the Mages facing Moon Spawn but then after a re read it was like A-DUH
He s definately powerful enough to do some serious damage on 2 or 3 people at the same time and pawning 12 panion mages in one blow although that did wear him out almost completely. dont forget that he was fighting the Crippeled Gods assault on the warrens at the same time