[Aptorian]

Actually Vengeance that quotes just states that Kallor can't kill K'rul, doesn't say elder gods are really unkillable.

Personally I agree though, I think the elemental aspected ones are just banished to chaos if slain.

[D'rek]

For those talking about the Tyrant, thinking (s)he is the Seguleh First:

GotM Chapter 11 said:

Mammot and Crokus:
"I am just beginning the fifth volume, which opens with the reign of Ektalm, second to last of the Tyrant Kings.
"Who?"
"Usurper of Letastte and succeeded by his daughter, Sandenay, who brought on the Risint Time and with it the end of the age of tyrants."

Since Seguleh don't usurp each other or succeed each other by birth-right, seems rather unlikely the Tyrant(s) were Seguleh themselves. Plus Sandenay ended the age of tyrants, so I really wouldn't count on seeing any "The Return of the Tyrant" components to TtH. Karsa returning to Laederon (if it occurs) and Crokus returning to Darujhistan (if it occurs) should be more than enough stories of return...

[q21]

At the end of Reapers Gale Withal thinks this:

Quote

Off to the smithy. Not many ways of breaking a cursed sword. A weapon even nastier would do it, but in this case there wasn't one. So, back to the old smith's secret. To break an aspected weapon, bring it home, to the forge where it was born. RG pg. 899 the big British paperback one

I think the prologue hints at the breaking of Dragnipur, but this quote gets me thinking about how it may happen. While the idea of Karsa breaking it from within is pretty, I doubt that it's possible.

Draconus made that sword and presumably he's the only one who knows where and how he made it. Obviously he can't unmake it while he's trapped in there, but possibly Paran could visit him again and find out the relevant information and then have the sword destroyed.

As for a nastier weapon, the only one i can think of would be Brood's Hammer. The only situation I can see the Hammer breaking Dragnipur is if the two wielders fight each other. If SE can make that happen it might be the route by which one of those two dies (because I think at least one of them will). Brood uses the Hammer to break Dragnipur, followed very shortly by Rakes head - or - Brood breaks the sword, Mandy veers and eats Brood. Also, someone could steal Dragnipur with the intention of killing Brood with it only to find that the Hammer is a nastier weapon... at which point that person dies messily.

Anyway, that's my two cents worth.

[D'rek]

Ah good find, and since it's the epilogue I can definitely see it being a case of foreshadowing. I don't see Brood and Anomander going at each other, but if one of them dies/loses his weapon, it could happen. Or Rake could realize Dragnipur is doomed and ask Brood nicely to break it.

I was thinking about the horrible consequences of breaking Dragnipur. At first I was thinking that maybe Paran can convince the billions of demons and dragons inside the sword to be nice and help him wage war on the Chemalle, and since they're all afraid of spending another 500 000 years dragging a wagon, they agree. But then a better idea came. Break Dragnipur on the grounds of a Super-Azath. Definitely.

[amphibian]

skir;267170 said:

Ah good find, and since it's the epilogue I can definitely see it being a case of foreshadowing. I don't see Brood and Anomander going at each other, but if one of them dies/loses his weapon, it could happen. Or Rake could realize Dragnipur is doomed and ask Brood nicely to break it.

I was thinking about the horrible consequences of breaking Dragnipur. At first I was thinking that maybe Paran can convince the billions of demons and dragons inside the sword to be nice and help him wage war on the Chemalle, and since they're all afraid of spending another 500 000 years dragging a wagon, they agree. But then a better idea came. Break Dragnipur on the grounds of a Super-Azath. Definitely.

Why is everyone assuming that the breaking of Dragnipur means that everyone inside gets resurrected as they were?

The Hounds are the only ones killed by the sword to escape and they didn't come back as themselves. That cold sphere in the middle of the vagon changed or revealed them.

[Ammanas]

Prediction 1
QB and Shadowthrone clash over Kalam and one dies. Might seem crazy but they don't seem to like each other. Be kinda ironic if QB was able to kill ST cuz his power level increased due to fighting Icarium(where ST sent him) Anyway, my only slim logic for this is RG pg 197 Cotillion tells QB "Kalam still lives. The Deadhouse has him, beyond the reach of time itself. Yet he will heal. Shadowthrone saved the assassin's life."

But when pressed as to why--Cot says "that's a harder question to answer" but thinks " Be glad, Delat, I don't tell you his real reason"

Prediction 2

Apsalar takes a position in HHS. Cot's memories and her skills prove too strong to ignore, preventing her from leading a normal life.

Prediction 3

Karsa puts together an army of Teblor and its first bloody engagement consists of wiping out Fat Felisin's "entourage"

Prediction 4

Krul falls dead after 30 agonizing seconds of watching Kruppe dance.

Prediction 5

Paran is involved in the breaking of Dragnipur somehow although I have no clue how--just a gut feeling. He has become quite good at restoring balances and things seem to be tilting in chaos's favor. Hood also plays a role--all those souls rightly belong in his realm.

Prediction 6

Shadowthrone pulls off a major gambit. He's told Cot that he's a "bit stretched" for the past couple of books so hes obviously been working on something.

[Sindriss]

amphibian;267183 said:

Why is everyone assuming that the breaking of Dragnipur means that everyone inside gets resurrected as they were?

The Hounds are the only ones killed by the sword to escape and they didn't come back as themselves. That cold sphere in the middle of the vagon changed or revealed them.

Actually, we were told that by that ancient goddess, who used the alias nightchill and were one of the mages in the 2 regiment or something along that.

Just wasted 30 min trying to find the correct quote in MoI, I think it is hidden there. Anyway, she told paran something along the lines, of draconus plotting to escape and that the sword needed to be broken because they needed draconus for a new chaining/killing og CG. However, she feared all the dragons/demons/ascendents and etc. coming out when released from the sword.
The employed paran to talk to draconus, if anybody knew how to break the sword without releasing them it would be him.

[amphibian]

Sindriss;267220 said:

Actually, we were told that by that ancient goddess, who used the alias nightchill and were one of the mages in the 2 regiment or something along that.

Just wasted 30 min trying to find the correct quote in MoI, I think it is hidden there. Anyway, she told paran something along the lines, of draconus plotting to escape and that the sword needed to be broken because they needed draconus for a new chaining/killing og CG. However, she feared all the dragons/demons/ascendents and etc. coming out when released from the sword.
The employed paran to talk to draconus, if anybody knew how to break the sword without releasing them it would be him.

I found this quote from MoI on page 117 of the Advance copy I have. It may be numbered slightly different from the actual edition, but I ain't paying more money for a book I already have.

This is Paran's internal dialogue after a conversation with Silverfox.

Quote

The wagon carries the gate, the gate into Kurald Galain, the warren of Darkness. The sword gathers souls to seal it... such a wound it must be, to demand so many souls...

So what in the heck? The Hounds go in, transmogrify into the souls of the Deragoth or are shunted into the bodies. Draconus gets a gate and imbeds it within a sword to seal it up - eventually - and Clip spins the only other one we know of around his fingers all day long.

This sword is crazy.

[Optimus Prime]

I think either Paran or Karsa breaks Dragnipur...

Kallor is going to kill lots of people...probably kill Orfantal (Korlat's brother)

[Silencer]

IF Clip kills Rake it had better not be up-front. Not after he got wasted trying that in RG.
I like the idea of QB killing ST. But I can't see it happening. Actually, I don't like that idea. It's just.....weird.
And the guy who made the point about Karsa not breaking the sword from the inside because of the aspect/forge thing: good catch. And I'm sick of Karsa breaking the rules. Let's see him get wasted by QB, then chained in Dragnipur!!!!!!

[Ain't_It_Just_]

I'd like to see Clip get D'd. Obnoxious little fuck.

If i recall rightly (and i always do), Not-Apsalar ( ) is the Virgin of Death. or was that just for GotM?

And if some maniac were to steal Dragnipur, why not just hide it? let the wagon slow, let chaos come and let all hell break loose. But only if they were insano's.

What will be interesting is to perhaps see characters on Lether, like QB or Hedge. Or even better, dead BB's walking around genebackis!

Lol... imagine.

"Trotts, your turn to pull the cart."

'But I'm a ghost. i don't need-"

"Shut up and pull!"

[Silencer]

Yeah, the Virgin of Death thing was only for GotM (as far as we know.....)
It would be interesting to flip back to Lether a bit, but I got the impression that was either DoD, or in the opening scenes of TtH....

[Holsety]

Quote

I also predict that Rake will die at Traveller's hands immediately after Draconus is shattered by some reeeediculous Apsalar/Paran stuff.

I dunno why this would happen but it would be pleasantly ironic, didn't rake make Vengeance/Grief and then give it to darist when he got dragnipur? Would follow a pattern close to the pattern of dragnipur (drac making then getting owned by it and all). Do we have any idea how rake got dragnipur anyways?

Hopefully we will find out something about the seguleh and the cabal. Didn't the first send the third out b/c he was worried about his position being taken? (or maybe that was the seguleh second?)

Quote

Ah good find, and since it's the epilogue I can definitely see it being a case of foreshadowing. I don't see Brood and Anomander going at each other, but if one of them dies/loses his weapon, it could happen.

Didn't they get into some tussles in the past? I realize they are older and wiser now but are they really "friends forever" types?

But I don't see any particular reason for it to happen atm.

Quote

If i recall rightly (and i always do), Not-Apsalar ( ) is the Virgin of Death. or was that just for GotM?

As far as I remember, during "the game" in BH Fiddler gives not-apsalar assassin of HHS and says it's "the only card she ever gets."

KALLOR WILL RETURN!

[Silencer]

Yeah - the first chucked the Third out to avoid a fight. The Second is currently the Soldier of Death (the real one) and hasn't been seen by the Seguleh in ages.
Rake killed Draconus. Probably with Grief/Vengeance, given Darist's comments about how he abandoned it 'after he found a weapon better suited to his manner' or some such.
Caladan Brood and Rake technically never fought. But only because they avoided each other for the majority of their lives. They did have a falling out/drifting apart stage after they travelled together for a while.

[Jorram]

What do you mean by "the real one"? There's never been another soldier of death we've heard of (Dassem & Baudin are Knight of Death)

[Silencer]

I mean the actual person in that position, rather than just the holder in the Deck - he is really the Soldier, rather than say....Kalam being called the Assassin of HHS.

[Holsety]

Silencer;267375 said:

Yeah - the first chucked the Third out to avoid a fight. The Second is currently the Soldier of Death (the real one) and hasn't been seen by the Seguleh in ages.
Rake killed Draconus. Probably with Grief/Vengeance, given Darist's comments about how he abandoned it 'after he found a weapon better suited to his manner' or some such.
Caladan Brood and Rake technically never fought. But only because they avoided each other for the majority of their lives. They did have a falling out/drifting apart stage after they travelled together for a while.

I know the second is the soldier - but how did he become it? For some reason I got it stuck in my head that he was also sent away. Then became soldier somehow.

Quote

Rake killed Draconus. Probably with Grief/Vengeance, given Darist's comments about how he abandoned it 'after he found a weapon better suited to his manner' or some such.

No! Rake killed Draconus with Dragnipur! That's why Draconus is now chained inside of it. Remember that old man Paran talked to who knew crazy things?

[Silencer]

Yes, although he DEFEATED Draconus with Grief. Then took Dragnipur and killed him with it (the only way to really). All right. So that's a wild guess. But the only other possibility is that Envy gave Dragnipur to Rake, although it has been explicitly mentioned that she stood aside rather than participated.

As to the Second - it could go either way, although I think it is more likely that he left, then he became the soldier.

[Dancer+]

Silencer;267402 said:

Yes, although he DEFEATED Draconus with Grief. Then took Dragnipur and killed him with it (the only way to really). All right. So that's a wild guess. But the only other possibility is that Envy gave Dragnipur to Rake, although it has been explicitly mentioned that she stood aside rather than participated.

As to the Second - it could go either way, although I think it is more likely that he left, then he became the soldier.

How about Rake took Dragnipur before the bout because it was the only way to defeat Draconus? That is just as likely unless we have some concrete evidence that Draconus kept the sword on his personage at all times, which would significantly lower the likelihood.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

Im fairly confident Dragnipur will be broken, but I cant see Rake or K'rul dying- Rake's just too cool and the last 2 books without magic would be a little odd.

As for deaths, Im gonna be outlandish and say no-one major dies in TtH, setting it up for a host of deaths in the final books.