[Aptorian]

Me and Skywalker was having a discussion in the GotM forum, but there was spoilers a plenty so thought I'd take it here instead.

Is K'rull now a dreamgod? I think so. Three pieces of text that combined are to me convincing:

The first I'm not going to type up, basically Keruli, at the KCCM attack on the caravans, did something funny and they all fell asleep. I will add this

Quote

p. 436 MoI

"We all went down, you fool. We were done for. But that priest plucked our souls away - as far as those K'Chain Che'Malle could sense, we were dead. Don't you remember dreaming? Dreaming! Pulled right into that Elder Gods own warren. [cut]"

I know that one is tenious.

Quote

p. 848 MoI
At the meeting upon the hill outside Capustan

"I thought it was you," Kallor hissed. "Such a paltry disguise-"
"Issues of physical manifestation have proved problematic."
"You've lost your power."
"Not entirely. It has... evolved, and so I am forced to adjust, and learn."

Finally there is this one:

Envy and garath have jumped down into an abandoned temple of Hoods in a slaughtered city.

Quote

[Envy] "I can imagine what awakened this place to you," she said, eyes on Garath, who had lain down and was moment from sleep. "All that blood, seeping down, dripping, dripping onto your altar. I admit, I prefer your abode in Darujistan. Far grander, almost worthy of complementing my esteemed presence. But this..." Her nose wrinkled.
Garath, eyes closed, twitched.
Welcome, Lady Envy

I think K'rull arrives through Garaths dreams.

[mob16151]

The only problem I see with your theory is there already a queen of dreams and I dont think 2 gods can have the same aspect ala Trake and the wolves of winter.

[Aptorian]

Or can they? dun dun duuuun...

Queen of Dreams sits in the House of Life. Remember her HD ready TV water fountain? Perhaps she's actually the god of premonition and forsight, she's a precognitive god... not actually god of dreams.

(realise now, that I'm going to be pulling halfassed maybes out of my... to support this idea )

[mob16151]

So you think that Krull has claimed some sort of position in high house life maybe
or hes just aspected to dreams?

[Aptorian]

Just dreams, an elder god of dreams... but as he says himself, he's evolving, no one says he has to specialise.

[mob16151]

Myself I think it would be cool if he was evolving into some sort of god of hope type thing. Maybe aspected into it because it seems to me that just the fact of Krul reappearing gave hope to everyone in Moi in different ways.

[Skywalker]

Let the war of the quotes continue

This is the first quote, from MOI, when Kruppe has all but dragged the Mhybe to the Beast Throne:

Quote

Lass, hear Kruppe's words! He begs you! This - this world - Kruppe's dream no longer! Do you understand? It must pass from me. It must be passed on! (snip)

Dearest Mhybe, so aptly named! You are the vessel in truth, now! Within you—take this dream from me. Allow it to fill your spirit. Kruppe must pass it on to you—do you understand? (snip)

Now, lass, permit Kruppe to edge back. Those who approach you now—well, this is the passing of a dream, from one to the other, and into the background noble Kruppe must now go.

Togg and Fanny take the Beast Throne while Kruppe is talking, and Mhybe goes to talk to some Rhivi Elders, who tell her:

Quote

This world—it is for you. Indeed, it exists within you. With this world, your daughter asks for forgiveness.'
'S-she made this—'
'There were many participants, each and all driven by the injustice that befell you. There was... desperation, the day your daughter was... created.

The one known as Kruppe. The Elder God, K'rul. The one named Pran Chole. And yourself. And, when she gathered us within her, ourselves as well.

Silverfox sought to answer yet more—the tragedy that are the T'lan Imass and the T'lan Ay. It may be,' he added, one hand making a faint gesture of bereavement, 'that what her heart sought has proved too vast-'
'Where is she? Where is my daughter?'
The elder shook his head. 'Despair has taken her. Away.'

So in a nutshell, Kruppe's dreamworld, the birthplace of Silverfox, was passed on to the Mhybe. Silverfox struck a deal with Hood - the Mhybe would sleep unending, in exchange he will eventually get the souls of the T'lan Imass. Having lost the T'lan Imass, she thought she had broken that bargain, but Kruppe says Hood is a patient god.

K'rul ensured that she was sleeping and placed by Coll and Murillio under Hood's Temple in Capustan. He tells them:

Quote

'This is not a burial,' K'rul said to him. 'The Mhybe now sleeps, and will sleep for ever more. She sleeps, to dream. And within her dream, Murillio, lives an entire world.'
'Like Burn?' Coll asked.
The Elder God smiled in answer.
'Wait a moment!' Murillio snapped. 'Just how many sleeping old women are there?'

EDIT: So yeah, the Beast Throne, the land of the memories of ice, Togg and Fanny, the Rhivi spirits, the T'lan Ay, all now exist in the Mhybe's dream

It was once Kruppe's dream, which was passed on to the Mhybe. K'rul helped. BUT at no point did he power-up said dream world, nor has he become the god of dreams

[Aptorian]

... it is implied that K'rull is backing up Kruppe allthrough MoI. Damnit, I'm gonna dig up some more quotes.

[mob16151]

But you did not disprove the fact that Krul becoming the elder god of hope or maybe a better word to us would be peace. Making silverfox the vessel to give the t'lan Imass rest,helping the mybe to sleep the more I look at it I can see Krul as the elder god of peace.

[Aptorian]

Now you're just being silly, K'rull is clearly the god of dreams, look above...

(still looking ofr a good quote)

[mob16151]

I happen to like my theory of Krul as the elder god of peace and I am gonna stick to it its so pretty such a pretty pretty theory. lol *wanders off to smell some pretty pretty roses*

[Skywalker]

If anything, Kruppe was K'rul's teacher in MOI...

This is K'rul telling Toc he will soon be in the Pannion Domin's embrace and must find a way to set the people oppressed by it free..

Quote

Struggling, Toc pushed his question forward in his mind. Release them. Why?
An odd question, mortal. I speak of compassion. There are gifts unimagined in such efforts. A man who dreams has shown me this, and indeed, you shall soon see for yourself. Such gifts...

Makes me wonder if K'rul is now the god of compassion... NOT DREAMS

EDIT: Also, found a quote about when K'rul saved the caravan. This be Stonny talking, when she explains to Gruntle that she is now a worshipper of K'rul:

Quote

"We all went down, you fool. We were done for. But that priest plucked our souls away—as far as those K'Chain Che'Malle could sense, we were dead. Don't you remember dreaming? Dreaming! Pulled right into that Elder God's own warren. I recall every detail—'
'I guess I was too busy dying for real,' Gruntle snapped.
'Yes, you were, and Keruli saved you from that, too. Ungracious pig. One moment I was getting tossed around by a K'Chain Che'Malle, the next I woke up… somewhere else… with a huge ghost wolf standing over me. And I knew - knew instantly, Gruntle, that nothing was getting past that wolf. It was standing guard... over me

So once again, K'rul was simply making use of the dreamworld - it wasn't his - it was the wolf gods.

[mob16151]

Compassion com·pas·sion /kəmˈpæʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kuhm-pash-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a feeling of deep sympathy and sorrow for another who is stricken by misfortune, accompanied by a strong desire to alleviate the suffering. And what do you get when you alleviate suffering dun dun dun peace thank you thank you all very much. Oh god wait that means the Fa are compassionate.....crap.

[Abyss]

I tend to agree with this theory that Krul is changing his aspect.

There is another hint, in MoI, that the mule Kruppe, linked to Krul, rides seems to be asleep/dreaming, yet still aware.

(Unless of course it's just another sneaky Mule of Shadow of course)

As for overlapping the Queen of Dreams, well, even if she is aspected to dreams herself, we've seen other instances of overlapping aspect, ie: multiple gods of war, 4+ gods using Tennes, Shadow and Illusion both based off KE, etc etc.


- Abyss, dreams of coffee... go figure....

[D'rek]

C'mon guys, just because K'rul is a compassionate god doesn't suddenly make him The God of Compassion. Mael is the EG of the Sea, but when we see him putting up wards that block sounds, we don't suddenly declare him to have changed aspect to be the God of Longitudinal Waves. These EGs have a host of different powers and abilities, using one particular style of power and acting in one way are no where near enough evidence to decisively appoint a God's aspect...

[Mentalist]

K'rul is the Maker of paths. finita
he operates thru dreams. that doesn't mean he's the Malazan Hypnoses.

also, @ Abyss: how can you even think about doubting the Mules of Shadow?
and I mean, peace.. come on.. this is MBotF... peace would be boring.

[Skywalker]

kud13;258716 said:

K'rul is the Maker of paths. finita
he operates thru dreams. that doesn't mean he's the Malazan Hypnoses.

also, @ Abyss: how can you even think about doubting the Mules of Shadow?
and I mean, peace.. come on.. this is MBotF... peace would be boring.

K'rul is called the Shaper of paths methinks... slight distinctions. He imposed control/ structure on preexisting power.

[D'rek]

Maker of paths:

GotM, on p. 635, said:

K'rul:
"I was once a god," the figure replied. "Worshipped as K'rul, and my aspect was Obilisk. I am the Maker of Paths - do you find significance in that ancient title?"

[Skywalker]

Nice quote skir... I stand corrected. Rep to you!

He has been called Maker and Shaper it seems... and Shaper only in MT. This from Feather Witch's reading of the tiles:

Quote

Then, to achieve balance once more, is born the Eleint, and chaos is given flesh, and that flesh is draconic. Ruled by the Queen, who must be slain again and again by every child she bears. And her Consort, who loves none but himself. Then Liege, servant and guardian and doomed to eternal failure. Knight, the very sword of chaos itself - 'ware his path! And Gate, that which is the Breath. Wyval, spawn of the dragons, and the Lady, the Sister, Blood-Drinker and Path-Shaper. The Fell Dragons.

and,

Quote

Locqui Wyval waits. The Lady and the Sister dance round each other, each on her own side of the world. Blood-Drinker waits as well, waits to be found. Path-Shaper knows fever in his fell blood and staggers on the edge of the precipice.

[Regaez]

Well...

I was under the impression that the warrens were like K'rul's veins. And the Crippled God was poisoning the warrens, and thus poisoning K'rul. I remember numerous mentions of that in several books, although I may be mistaken...

(I would find a quote to back me up, but I've lent most of my books to people to be read 'cause they're so damn good, so I can't reference them...)