[Skywalker]

Couldn't find a thread dedicated to Heboric and the Jade Giants thing through forum search (surprising really) hence this post. Apologies if it duplicates.

So I be done with my reread of the Bonehunters. Must say it makes SO much more sense this time around (having read RG and NoK in the interim). I was hoping this reread would shed some light on the "Heboric saves the world from the Jade Giants" thing... and I think it did.

So here is how I think that story arc went down in the Bonehunters:

• Heboric was heading back to the otataral island to return his jade hand's power - he did not want the 'perks' that went with it
  
• The Unbound killed him as part of another salvo in the 'war among gods', taking him for Treach's Destriant
  
• Much later, when some Jade Giants filled with souls hit the moon and some others headed toward Wu, folks realized it could be an extinction level event
  
• To avoid said ELE, the Master of the Deck tried to invoke Mael, hoping the sea realm could be used to take the impact of the giants
  
• Instead, in a cosmic cross connection (Mael wasn't tuned in) he got through to Hood, who agreed to let Heboric out from his realm as answer for the Jade Giants (to do this he asked an unknown favor of Paran, which shocked an eavesdropping QB)
  
• Heboric returned to his lifeless body, reached out with his jade hands, which rose Godzilla-sized from the Otataral Island, and promised the souls within the Giants shield-anvillish peace
  
• The Jade Giants promptly changed course toward the hands
  
• Heboric took the souls within them to Hood's Realm/ into the darkness with him, thereby lessening the impact of the giants on Wu from an ELE to a smallish bang/ tsunami

No information available yet on who the souls from the Jade Giants are, where they are from, how they got imprisoned in the statues and priority interstellar shipped. But looks like Heboric, in touching the half-buried Jade Giant designated himself their Shield Anvil.

Does that ring true? Any other interpretations? Any info I missed?

[Aptorian]

I agree, it's pretty much how I read it.

About the Unbounds attack on Heboric I have one thing to add. Allthough the blow to Treach might have been worth taking out Heboric, the real reason, as I see it, was that Heboric was a powerfull obstacle between them and Felisin whom they were sent to collect.

[Skywalker]

Aptorian;253514 said:

About the Unbounds attack on Heboric I have one thing to add. Allthough the blow to Treach might have been worth taking out Heboric, the real reason, as I see it, was that Heboric was a powerfull obstacle between them and Felisin whom they were sent to collect.

Oh yeah... I missed that. Thanks Apt - have rep. I think L'oric is the one who says they took out Heboric first because they figured he would be the most formidable of the group that'd try and stop them from taking Felisin Fatter.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Skywalker;253506 said:

Couldn't find a thread dedicated to Heboric and the Jade Giants thing through forum search (surprising really) hence this post. Apologies if it duplicates.

So I be done with my reread of the Bonehunters. Must say it makes SO much more sense this time around (having read RG and NoK in the interim). I was hoping this reread would shed some light on the "Heboric saves the world from the Jade Giants" thing... and I think it did.

So here is how I think that story arc went down in the Bonehunters:

• Heboric was heading back to the otataral island to return his jade hand's power - he did not want the 'perks' that went with it
  
• The Unbound killed him as part of another salvo in the 'war among gods', taking him for Treach's Destriant
  
• Much later, when some Jade Giants filled with souls hit the moon and some others headed toward Wu, folks realized it could be an extinction level event
  
• To avoid said ELE, the Master of the Deck tried to invoke Mael, hoping the sea realm could be used to take the impact of the giants
  
• Instead, in a cosmic cross connection (Mael wasn't tuned in) he got through to Hood, who agreed to let Heboric out from his realm as answer for the Jade Giants (to do this he asked an unknown favor of Paran, which shocked an eavesdropping QB)
  
• Heboric returned to his lifeless body, reached out with his jade hands, which rose Godzilla-sized from the Otataral Island, and promised the souls within the Giants shield-anvillish peace
  
• The Jade Giants promptly changed course toward the hands
  
• Heboric took the souls within them to Hood's Realm/ into the darkness with him, thereby lessening the impact of the giants on Wu from an ELE to a smallish bang/ tsunami

No information available yet on who the souls from the Jade Giants are, where they are from, how they got imprisoned in the statues and priority interstellar shipped. But looks like Heboric, in touching the half-buried Jade Giant designated himself their Shield Anvil.

Does that ring true? Any other interpretations? Any info I missed?

Sounds pretty bulletproof. Damn, i'm thinking of a "but" but I can't think of anything....

[Abyss]

Slight difference of opinion...

The Jade Chunks contained the souls as a power source of sorts... via his link to the Jade power acquired in 7C, Heboric took the souls into himself a la Shield-Anvil and depowered the chunks, which then impacted with radically less effect that would have otherwise occured. So the chunks didn't change course - they were depowered.

Heboric and others always assumed he was Trake's Destriant, mostly because he was a former priest was was aspirant to Fener's Destriant position... an open question is whether he was always Trake's S-A and didn't realize it, or WILLED the role change himself. That he healed various people, a function we've only seen Destriant's do, suggests the latter, which says a LOT about the power worshippers can exert over the power invested in them by gods.


I still wonder whether we'll see Heboric again in Chaur's body in TtH or later books.

- Abyss, could say Heboric blew chunks out of the sky...

[Mentalist]

hmmm one minor thing to correct--
The reason Paran got Hood instead of Mael, was because the painter tossed a king of Death card in his face...

Also, something that i just realized--Paran expected to have a Mael card and then was pisses at the artist and had to draw one. So what position in the Deck would Mael have had?

[Zanth13]

kud13;260874 said:

hmmm one minor thing to correct--
The reason Paran got Hood instead of Mael, was because the painter tossed a king of Death card in his face...

Also, something that i just realized--Paran expected to have a Mael card and then was pisses at the artist and had to draw one. So what position in the Deck would Mael have had?

maybe an unaligned, he probably has a card that is not normally active (therefor not seen at all/often) but because paran is who he is he can create/use it any way...

[Abyss]

Paran being MoD, Zanth's explanation makes sense.

Or perhaps Paran's having a very special deck made that doesn't let ANYONE off the hook.

- Abyss, plot speculator...

[Skywalker]

Abyss;260833 said:

Slight difference of opinion...

(snip) So the chunks didn't change course - they were depowered. (snip)

Don't have the book on me right now, but I'm pretty sure there was a line where some POV characters say the statues have changed course toward the giant hands (Heboric's) rising out of Otataral Isle... also there are some expostulations along the lines of "Dang! Good thing it didn't land where it was initially going to" (liberally phrased precis, that)

[D'rek]

I disagree Skywalker. As far as I recall, the characters were just generally unsure about where the falling suns were headed in the first place, and then after proclaimed "Oh, they were aimed at otatoral island". I don't think the falling thingies had to change course, I believe they were headed towards the Jade hands in otatoral island all along, but by Heboric reaching out, the giant Jade hands extended above ground and took the souls in the air. I think otherwise the falling statues would have still reached the giant Hands, but would have had to go through the earth above the hands, thus causing enormous earthquakes/tsunamis/etc.


As for Paran using a card for Mael, he's also used cards for a magical Condor, and for Moon's Spawn. So he can probably do pretty much anything with those cards. Can't wait 'til he goes to other Azaths and uses the stuff in the other Azath-basements, like the geographic tiles in Tremorlor.


Oh and one more thing --> Who's to say Heboric was the SA of Treach? It's quite possible Hood, being now in possession of his soul, empowered Heboric himself, so Heb. might've become SA of Death for a time, or some other strange possibility...

[Flawed]

All in all a great surmisation Skywalker

Skywalker;253506 said:

[*]Instead, in a cosmic cross connection (Mael wasn't tuned in) he got through to Hood, who agreed to let Heboric out from his realm as answer for the Jade Giants (to do this he asked an unknown favor of Paran, which shocked an eavesdropping QB)

As per the above. My speculation as to the favour that Hood requested from Paran.....

He has asked him to visit the Azath House that houses Daseems Daughter body. He will then deliver it to Hood who will then either heal her if she wasn't quite dead yet or put her soul back as reparation for Daseem.

Abyss;260833 said:

I still wonder whether we'll see Heboric again in Chaur's body in TtH or later books.

...

I agree. I've always thought this and I'm almost positive Heboric is now in Chaurs body.

[Skywalker]

Thats a pretty handsome theory, Flawless!

@skir - hmm... my memory is a bit spotty. Will have to dig out some quotes to see what the evidence is

EDIT - and you make a good point about the cards. Paran doesn't have to stick to the Deck when he's drawing cards

[Jason]

Flawed;263916 said:

I agree. I've always thought this and I'm almost positive Heboric is now in Chaurs body.

Agreed.

Another thing I've been thinking about is if the characters in Crokus's boat will somehow be effected by being so close to that event. It would be groovy if they all picked up otoratal effects or something.

[Adjutant Stormy~]

And become like Crokus Anti-magic Younghand- magic immune extra-strong?

It would be interesting if it aided in Crokus's ascension / getting laid plans. Sorry for always bringing that up

[Jason]

...you can't get laid

[Mentalist]

hmmm.. I'll place myself in the sceptical camp on the "Chaur is now Heboric" issue, because SE promised us to cut down on the resurrections. And Heboric did actually die, unlike Paran or Toc.

[Mr.Warren]

It seems unlikely that heboric will come back through chur, not impossible though

But the jade Giants and the crippled god and the jade fire from the sky might be all connected, there was a question asked to paran before he went to hood asking for help, something like "is this another crippled god?" - so a theory might well be that the souls in the the jade are the souls of worshipers of the crippled god's from his original dimension?
that the crippled god in all his mind twistedness still has a pull over, such explaining the jade fire attack.

But in relation to Hebroic do you think he became the Shield Anvil for the CG in answer to the souls in the jade? A title that the CG certainly does not working for him

hmmm?

[dolfanuk]

if he is SA to the CG i can see bad things happening to the chained one.

i mean he could take alll the anger and pain away and give him peace, right?

[Salt-Man Z]

Mr.Warren;334596 said:

But the jade Giants and the crippled god and the jade fire from the sky might be all connected, there was a question asked to paran before he went to hood asking for help, something like "is this another crippled god?" - so a theory might well be that the souls in the the jade are the souls of worshipers of the crippled god's from his original dimension?

Oh, there's definitely a connection.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

No. Heboric conjectured that the Jade Giants are like an army in pursuit of the CG. He could be wrong, but probably not.