[Venerus]

Firstly: thank you all for the kind welcome

Quick~;245384 said:

It'd fit quite neatly with the "shapeshifting bastard" comment Ammanas makes if he was able to veer into more than one other form.

Secondly: I have a few questions about this comment myself. Sorry if this has been discussed in full elsewhere, I can't find it on the forums. First off, is QB in his original body, or during the travels in Raraku did he jump into one of the other bodies along the way? Might this explain the "shapeshifting bastard" comment?

I know Kalam says it's QB's original form in MoI but he could be lying; he says QB was a middling mage around the same time, which might have been true, but might also have been part of their subterfuge (QB pretending to be weakened etc). We also get a story from Lostara remembering him in his current form as a priest of shadow in HoC, for what it's worth.

It bothers me is that Sorry/Cotillion doesn't recognize him during all of GotM. Is Quick in disguise the entire time? It couldn't be a shadow guise or Cotillion would have recognized him -- are there non-shadow aspected warrens of illusion that might trick a god? Or did Cotillion never meet QB/Delat when he was a high priest? Or when Cot met QB was QB in disguise? We know that Cot recognizes him by name because he gets all irritated when ST tells Cot QB's real name...

And then there's the question of how he managed to keep his identity hidden from ST during most of their interaction in GotM. Is he using one of his 11 other souls' forms? Gah. Such a mystery, so little to go on

[Apsalar Shadowdancer]

your questioning his ability to hide who he was? Is this the same QB that hid on HOODS GATE so he could spy on Hood himself? As the Butler in Mr. Deeds said "I think your underestimating the sneekyness"

[Zendog13]

See? I knew the Butler did it!!! That sneaky bastich is behind everything!!!

[Quick~]

Aptorian;245392 said:

The peble was used to listen in on the three sisters conversation. How three magical beings didn't notice the bug I don't know.

ah ok thanks apt, I didn't remember seeing that mentioned directly, is that an assumption based on previous pebble usage combined with what they seem to know or a direct reference on it?

Quote

your questioning his ability to hide who he was? Is this the same QB that hid on HOODS GATE so he could spy on Hood himself?

I think that reasonably answers how QB would be able to hide who he was in front of Co/Am

[Aptorian]

Assumption yes. But i also seem to recall quick or hedge remarking on the three sisters and their conversation.

[Zendog13]

I would hazard a guess that the more powerful a being the less likely it would be to notice a simple or weak spell since it would naturally only look for something that could harm him/her. It has been stated over and over in the books themselves and the forum how the more powerful players tend to become increasingly more arrogant as they gain power (and fame?) So a person who relies on his wits as well as his powers could easily outwit a more powerful one. Quick has done this many times.

[Aptorian]

Of course but you'd think that the sisters would sense something that's not just masked but also translating a signal/wiring sound/what ever.

[Mentalist]

Venerus;245415 said:

We also get a story from Lostara remembering him in his current form as a priest of shadow in HoC, for what it's worth.

ok, this is very minor, but Lostara Yil saw, danced for and did other things with Dancer, (aka Cotillion), who was pretending to be Anaephon Ben Delat

[Aptorian]

What? No, Quick and Dancer were working together to unravel Bidithals cult. Thats how ST and Cot know Quick. He worked for them long ago.

[Zendog13]

If the signal itself was disguised as something that they WOULD expect to hear/feel then there is no reason they would notice it easily.

[Gem Windcaster]

Quick is just badass, why can't you just admit it...

But seriously though, these questions keep popping up around Quick. And human mages in general. Magery is a tricky business to understand. It's driving me nuts. I love it.

[Icarium]

IMO QB always turns people on each other etc. etc. after doing a bit of damage himself, and his manipulation of the situation tends to result in death for who he wants it to, certainly not brute force. As people have said.

[Venerus]

Aptorian;245460 said:

Of course but you'd think that the sisters would sense something that's not just masked but also translating a signal/wiring sound/what ever.

It would fit with the whole D&D thing if the stones were mundane, actually; casting "silence" on a rock and throwing it at someone is more effective than casting the spell on the person, for instance.

It could be that there's nothing special about the stones, except that Quick familiarizes himself with them. Let's say it follows the D&D mechanic, then 1. scrying spells needs a specific target, 2. the better known the target the better/more accurate the scrying, 3. unattended objects get no save (but attended ones or sentient beings do, ie a god would notice someone spying directly on them but maybe not someone spying on a nearby hill) and 4. wards against scrying don't apply to unattended objects. If that's right, then giving someone a regular ol' rock that can be well visualized would be a very effective way to spy on them.

I kind of like this explanation anyway; the idea of QB memorizing pebble contours so he can spy on people tickles me.

Obviously we know that Quick has invested rocks with neat lil' powers before, but is there anything to suggest that he does that to all the stones he plays with (ex: the stone that ends up in Munug's pack in MoI)?

Edit: "For the moment, [Quick Ben] could sense nothing of the innocuous waterworn pebble he'd dipped into his particular host of sorceries..." p. 60 of MoI
That could be read either way, I suppose...

[Zendog13]

Sounds good to em Venerus, and we know that one of his warens allows him to delve deep into the aspect of stone/rock, as we saw in MoI.

[D'rek]

also note he familiarizes different spells with different objects. Stones are used for tracking/spying while he uses acorns for teleportation...

[Optimus Prime]

I think a problem with the understanding of who is more powerful than who is that there aren't really any "laws" or "guidelines" for magery in MBotF. Unlike in other series...like WoT...where there are rules and guidelines...and I'm glad that there aren't any rules or structure. I love it.

*Agrees with Gem...Quick is just a total BAMF*

[D'rek]

or conversely (and perhaps realistically), there are billions of conflicting rules that all get intertwined, instead of the typical over-simplified "I am a mage, i cast magic, now i tired and must rest to regain my mana" that is seen in a lot of books...

[Optimus Prime]

Right. I guess what I mean is we haven't been told the rules. They haven't been laid out..so as far as we know...there aren't any...yet.

Who knows? Maybe the Encyclopedia Malazica will have some sort of framework in it for the use of warrens and such.

But to go back on topic. Quick is always able to use factors in situations to help him out. Like I said earlier...he knew..somehow..that the Three Lady Eleint do not get along. He also prepared a "shaved knuckle" and using all this..was able to beat them up enough to get a result that was positive. In this case...all three busted up and eventually dead.

[Venerus]

skir;247452 said:

also note he familiarizes different spells with different objects. Stones are used for tracking/spying while he uses acorns for teleportation...

I know this is minor, but doesn't Kalam use two of QB's stones in DG, one to transport everyone to the imperial warren, and one to...sort of summon QB? I know it's nitpicky. Sorry

[Mentalist]

as a general rule, he uses an acorn to summon or communicate with QB