[Wanderer]

Reading the post about someones gripes about Karsa, and it was mentioned he got beat down or something by Urko. I have no memory of this happening ever can someone fill me in? ( would re-read the series but im making my way through a mound of Gemmell books and the Saga of Seven Suns) Cheers.

[Gothos]

House of Chains, just as he and Torvald Nom manage to sneak out of the Nascent and are spat out near the Seven Cities coast. Urko's lighthouse was nearby, they came around to ask where they are, and lol, Karsa used his usual manners of the time which was enough to anger Urko and make him hit Karsa, resulting in broken ribs and a nearly broken arm, and Karsa passing out.
seems as the years go by people forget everything!

PS. I'd give you the exact page but my sis has my copy of the book (she can't get around to reading it for like 2 years now )

[thesalus]

Quote

'Too many words,' Karsa cut in. 'This man wastes his life with stupid tasks. When I decide I am hungry, I will take food.'
Though the Teblor was anticipating a violent reaction from Keeper, and though Karsa's hand was close to the grip of his bloodsword, he was unable to avoid the blurred fist that lashed out, connecting with his lower ribs on his right side. Bones cracked. The air in his lungs exploded outward. Sagging, Karsa staggered back, incapable of drawing breath, a flood of pain darkening his vision.
He had never been hit so hard in his life. Not even Bairoth Gild had managed to deliver such a blow. Even as consciousness slipped from him, he swung a look of astonished, unfeigned admiration on Keeper. Then he collapsed.

HoC, 228 Chapter 3.

[Aptorian]

Quote

Even as consciousness slipped from him, he swung a look of astonished, unfeigned admiration on Keeper. Then he collapsed.

I've always loved this part. You can just feel how barbaric he still is at this point.

admiration

[Gothos]

hey, what a good opponent always deserves is respect :-)

[Sinisdar Toste]

speaking of urko, how tall is this mofo? karsas at least eight feet tall, and even if urko only came to his shoulders he's tall as hell, do napans grow taller than normal humans?

[Gibby]

So are Urso, Urko, Dassem, Nok and all Kellanved's other leaders going to come back in the next three books do you think, or are they just in hiding forever?

[Aptorian]

Sinisdar Toste;238295 said:

speaking of urko, how tall is this mofo? karsas at least eight feet tall, and even if urko only came to his shoulders he's tall as hell, do napans grow taller than normal humans?

Why is this important? He punched him in the ribs not the face.

Gibby;238311 said:

So are Urso, Urko, Dassem, Nok and all Kellanved's other leaders going to come back in the next three books do you think, or are they just in hiding forever?

Who is Urso?

I don't think we'll hear much in the rest of the series since it's now beginning to focus on the end.

It's more likely that we'll get some tasty bits from Return of the Crimson Guard.

[Zanth13]

love that scene, classic scene of an old school dog, teaching a young pup some humility

this was also showing the strenght/power of the malazan founders, these people became the elites and are not to be taken lightly.


someone should make a more accurate list because I never really pay attention to people we dont see

Malazan founders/early leaders (the do not fuck with list)

Kellevend
Dancer
Surly
Tayschrenn
Dujek
Whiskeyjack
Urko
Nok
Dassem Ultor
Duiker
Toc the elder

-unless you are bad ass yourself or backed up by the CG these people get left alone.

[Aptorian]

Whiskey Jack is too young to belong to that list.

[Mcflury]

aye, WJ was just a soldier (captain I think... I believe his rank is told when he talks with Paran in the prologue of the book I don't know the title off ) when Surly took over... so surely he wasn't part of the crew that founded the malazan empire.

and about the 'do not fuck with' list... all of those guys have been fucked with, and some haven't really been punished for it yet

[Zanth13]

Mcflury;238338 said:

aye, WJ was just a soldier (captain I think... I believe his rank is told when he talks with Paran in the prologue of the book I don't know the title off ) when Surly took over... so surely he wasn't part of the crew that founded the malazan empire.

and about the 'do not fuck with' list... all of those guys have been fucked with, and some haven't really been punished for it yet

ohh well the do not fuck with part was a joke more or less... dont read to much into it

WJ? really I think his rank was above Captain. going from Captain to Sergeant is not to much of a difference(edit:in the malazan army anyway), especially if your a Sergeant who's Captains keep getting killed off :folken: pretty sure he was higher up then that. I think he was the commander of the entire BB (the elites) which was quit a bit bigger during there prime.

@apt, I guess your right about that, I just took the friendship between him and Dujekt to far....but he couldnt have been to far behind him in joining. He was the commander of the BB's when Paran was just a boy.

[Mcflury]

aye, I know, WJ off course was higher rank... I kinda thought he was about captain when he was talking with Paran, then rose in ranks to get thrown down again... but you're right, that doesn't make sense... he should've idd already been big boss of the BB at that time... but still, he wasn't originally part of the guys who formed the malazan empire I think (maybe as a soldier in the ranks back then).
EDIT: I seem to remember WJ was once the superior of Dujek... when did that happen? :s

[Zanth13]

Mcflury;238342 said:

aye, I know, WJ off course was higher rank... I kinda thought he was about captain when he was talking with Paran, then rose in ranks to get thrown down again... but you're right, that doesn't make sense... he should've idd already been big boss of the BB at that time... but still, he wasn't originally part of the guys who formed the malazan empire I think (maybe as a soldier in the ranks back then).
EDIT: I seem to remember WJ was once the superior of Dujek... when did that happen? :s

ohhh yeah good call , I think I remember that also... someone with a better brain or a book will have to enlighten us on that one....

You still here Apt? any one else?

I remember Dujek saying that Whiskeyjack would have had his job had things not gone down the way they did,

[Mcflury]

aye. Might have been said in MoI, when Dujek and WJ are (once again) solo in a tent, drinking and talking.
Or was it at the end of the book where Paran came into play, and when they tell Dujek the BB are gonna help out Dujek, but Dujek says they should retire and all... it could be that Dujek mentions WJ being his superior once in that part of the series... Oh God, don't know anymore... but it's said somewhere

[greyjoy1979]

I remember an old saying, I can't recall it's origin, and it goes "where there's a will, there is a way." The one attribute that SE's "overpowered characters" seem to share is an ability to do that which is "impossible." I believe SE uses the word "efficacy" frequently. Look it up. They can look at any given situation, and say, "hey, it can't be done, but that's not gonna stop me from trying." Or in Karsa's case, "Witness." In my personal professional carreer, those who get ahead are not those with exceptional skills, though that certainly helps, but those willing to achieve what is believed to be "impossible" by everyone else. Karsa Orlong is not an arrongant man (well, maybe a little) but a man obscenely aware of his own efficacy. How can you hate a man like that? Unless you yourself are appalled at your own lack of efficacy, like you work at subway, or play WoW too much to get laid or something?

[Mcflury]

well, over-confidence tends to make oneself arrogant anyways
But yes, I get your point and I agree

[Flawed]

I like Karsa, he is amusing.

[Dancer+]

Whiskeyjack used to be a commander in the 2nd Army (see events of NoK) and Dujek was one station below him, if I remember correctly (that part was deduced from MoI) Dujek afterwards went on to scale the ranks to become a high fist, although WJ's superiority must have been greater than 10 years ago because Dujek would have been a little late for promotion as he was verging on a century old.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Zanth13;238332 said:

someone should make a more accurate list because I never really pay attention to people we dont see

Malazan founders/early leaders (the do not fuck with list)

Kellevend
Dancer
Surly
Tayschrenn
Dujek
Whiskeyjack
Urko
Nok
Dassem Ultor
Duiker
Toc the elder

-unless you are bad ass yourself or backed up by the CG these people get left alone.

You're missing the mysterious Ameron from that list, and Cartheron Crust.

Whiskeyjack and Duiker shouldn't be on there, as they are not "founders" of the Empire (if you are being really strict with the definitions). They came up through the ranks when the Empire was already a going concern.

Dujek is a borderline case - the earliest reference is to him as a young boy/teenager working for the Deadhouse team around the time when Kellanved was striking. So he was there, but it's hard to group him with all those powerful and legendary figures.