[thesalus]

You're right.

HHS in HoC is just
King (Shadowthrone)
Queen
Assassin (Cotillion/The Rope)
Magi
Hound
As well... it might be that it is because the Tiste Edur are not of this world.

Quote

‘Then where are our ancestors?’
‘Where?’ Rhulad’s voice was a rasp. ‘Where? Nowhere, brother. They are nowhere. Our souls flee our bodies, flee this world, for we do not belong here. We have never belonged here.’
‘And shall you lead us home, then, Rhulad?’

-Page 417, MT

[Aptorian]

I'd suspect the Edur souls of fleeing into KE aswell. The question would then be, is this something Hood accepts or would try to halt could he do so?

I think Hood takes what he can get.

[Dragnipurake]

I felt Trull was the knight of shadow meaning KE, not shadowthrone's gatehouse.

[Aptorian]

I don't think there's a distinction. Can you think of any situations where a position in a house interferes with a position in a hold?

Come to think of it, on Lether the house would be inactive, but still. Around the time Trull is named knight he is located in STs territory and he was doing Shadowthrones biding.

I don't doubt he was knight in STs house.

[Optimus Prime]

That could be just good ole fashioned misleading by Erikson though.

And something told me that Onrack being in awe of Trull's being the Knight of Shadow had an "elder" feel to it...not the newer, younger version of Shadow.

[Aptorian]

Lets talk semantics then, he's called knight of shadow, a new name, not Champion of Shadow, the old name

[Urb]

thesalus;236899 said:

King (Shadowthrone)
Queen (Not Apsalar)
Assassin (Cotillion/The Rope)
Magi (Iskaral Pust)
Hound (Paran)

Probably incorrect, but me likes the idea that Shadowthrone has a "full house".

[Aptorian]

Interesting, you connect the position of hound with paran and not the seven hounds of shadow?

[Sinisdar Toste]

Urb, when you say not apsalar you mean... the girl who used to be sorry, right? not... apsalar.
anyways, on the subject of trulls position in shadow, its likely that he is knight of KE, and due to the sundering, the hold was never fully translated into a HH like all the other warrens. but i would dispute that ST only has a 'gatehouse' portion of the warren, ST exists in most, if not all, of the fragments of KE. Cot. explains this to the dragons when they tell him that the true throne of shadow is not in this fragment, well neither is ST.

which brings up something about ST that has always puzzled me, how did Kellenved manage to turn himself into a being that can manifest itself in more than one point in space? its almost like he's infused part of himself into every fragment of shadow that he finds, in order to bring it all under his control.

way out there now, what if ST's plan is to use himself as the glue to pull the shattered warren back together and literally become 'shadow'

Toste, "Not, not not apsalar. Gods, did I just say that?"

[Urb]

Paran is singular, and not Apsalar was slapping a Hound of Shadow around with her very awesome shadow dancing skills.
I was just filling in the gaps to make a "ST has a good hand in this game" joke.
Think of it as a crazy theory.

[Silencer]

The ST we see is just a shadow manifestation - like what Paran does when he meets Apsalar in the Bonehunters. The real ST is sitting on Drift Avalii.....
Or something similar.
Trull was the Knight of Shadow, it doesn't mean he is equivalent to the Knight of Dark or the Champion of Light - that is simply his position. The position of Knight is too far down in the order of things to be equivalent - as someone mentioned, Assassin is much closer.

[Mentalist]

hmmm we are told (in MoI, I believe) that house of Shadow is diff from other houses--much more primal, less ordered. so, the comparison is inadequate.
Comparatively, Rake carries a lot more weight in the matteres of the House of Dark than Trull ever did, even though both of them are knights. As for Osserc, the House of light largely stayed out of the g ame openly so far, so we cannot truly judge his importance--so far we've only seen Osserc play a role of an uninterested God.....

[Zanth13]

to Clarify

Rake = 3rd in his house
Osserc= 3rd in his house

Cotillion not Trull would have been 3rd in his house

trull was somewhere between 4 and 6 right?

[Lisheo]

No. Assassin was a position made especially for Cotty. I doubt assassin featured in the more primal shadow House originally. So its quite possible that Trulls appearance shoved Cotty down. For all we know, Assassin is Shadow's answer to the Soldier and Priest cards.

Spoiler

In NoK, Shadow is described as being a warren on its own, seperate from KE or Rashan or Meanas, so maybe its the position of knight belongs to KE instead of Shadow.

[Kalahinen]

A bit off topic, but I've always wondered if Scabandari was the first Tiste Edur ever (like Anomandaris was the first Andii as far as we know). The Edur call him Father Shadow, but Cotillion says in RG that he murdered the royal line of the Edur and became the Champion of the Edur.

[Aptorian]

Like you say he killed the royal line. He was most likely the champion of the hold back then.

The father shadow thing is just their religious myths,

[Kalahinen]

Agreed, Danne...but people believe what they believe, right? Maybe Hamlet was the first born of the Danish...? ALLRIGHT..yeah

[Kalahinen]

Eller är det danske? (Forgive me my swedish dialect?)

[Aptorian]

"Dansker" in Danish and It's "Dane" in English - swedish is an inferior scandinavian dialect anyways

[Kalahinen]

True enough...glad that I hail from totally different language-family, the FENNO-UGRIANS, the Baltic Finns...