[HoosierDaddy]

After reading 0 posts, my opinion is yes, the discovery of alien life would destroy faith as it is on Earth. Could it recover and mutate? Yes. Faith is the absence of fact, so there is always room for it.

[Optimus Prime]

HoosierDaddy;354036 said:

After reading 0 posts, my opinion is yes, the discovery of alien life would destroy faith as it is on Earth. Could it recover and mutate? Yes. Faith is the absence of fact, so there is always room for it.

It will shake the core of those who take everything in their faith as absolute, that's for sure. Or hell...it may not. Faith in religion has lasted this long....

[HoosierDaddy]

Optimus Prime;354039 said:

It will shake the core of those who take everything in their faith as absolute, that's for sure. Or hell...it may not.

HoosierDaddy;354036 said:

After reading 0 posts, my opinion is yes, the discovery of alien life would destroy faith as it is on Earth. Could it recover and mutate? Yes. Faith is the absence of fact, so there is always room for it.

Damnit. I have actually read posts and posted in this thread before. My WinFu is now defunct. I blame concessive drunken posting as my reason.

Damnit. I'm even sadder now.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Cold Iron;353933 said:

Thirdly you were certainly not saying that only in this hypothetical situation would the book be worthless and both you and RLY know it.

Wow, wrong on multiple levels, all at once!

[Optimus Prime]

Raymond Luxury Yacht;354043 said:

Wow, wrong on multiple levels, all at once!

*shhhh* Let's just keep the discussion on track. But you're totally right

@HD, it's okay...no judging here...alcohol can be a bitch.

[Cold Iron]

Raymond Luxury Yacht;354043 said:

Wow, wrong on multiple levels, all at once!

Seems I'm the only one in this discussion willing to support my arguments with evidence. But you two outnumber me, so you must be right.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Here are all your posts in this thread. Notice how NOT ONE of them is factual. Some present your opinion incorrectly as fact, but they are not. Instead, as soon as you began posting, the thread immediately changed from people throwing out different ideas and commenting on them, to you being trollish. You really have a hard time interacting with other humans without being confrontational, don't you? This is not the only thread you've killed or attempted to kill by coming in and just attacking people's thoughts, often incorrectly.

Quote

1. I love this statement Thanks tharinock, you made my day.
2.Yep

I imagine the vast majority would try to convert said aliens to the one true god
3.Fine, how about I point out the fact that aliens are completely unnecessary, there have already been a plethora of discoveries that religion never touched on, so instead of putting thought into an observation, you decided to simply project your self-important judgement onto the board while at the same time showing disrespect to all those who didn't ask and don't need you to validate their faith even if you could. This on top of the repeated statement of your lack of religion implying that it is the obvious and even only logical stance and your childish attempts to claim that you are in fact tolerant and without bigotry. Your position stands in contradiction of your proclaimed abhorrence of racism as religion and culture are inseparable and you are completely ignorant of the hypocrisy.

Better?
4.Hey everyone relax, HD i was talking to xander (that's optumus prime), he asked for it, I even edited the post to add the quote so there's no confusion.

Anyway xander, you projected your self important judgement thusly:

Quote:
Were I religious, the discovery of something that my religious doctrine never even touched upon would destroy that holy book's worth to me
You are here both clearly judging (you have judged holy books to be worthless) and projecting (you show a failure to understand why those who do not share your judgement of the worthlessness of holy books and an inability to comprehend that your conclusion could not be the correct conclusion).

Your arguments consist of:
a) I must be high
I'm the judgemental and hypocritical one
c) I'm an engineer

My responses:
a) I'm not
I demand evidence
c) So what?

You lose

I'm going now anyway but just so everyone knows, I'm not flaming, I'm debating.

And you can't tell me my tone is harsh cos you can't hear it.

And I know there are some things that just aren't polite to say to someone but he did ask for it.
5.Firstly, the you lose comment was tongue in cheek, I would say that it was clearly tongue in cheek but that would make me a hypocrite, as I clearly took liberties with your meaning too

Secondly, whilst you did say it would render the religion worthless to you, this does little to remove the judgement and serves only to qualify your projection. Of course you are speaking for yourself, this information adds nothing, you can speak for no other. The implication remains inherent, as you showed no uncertainty in your opinion, that you believe it to be true and thus true for everyone.

Thirdly you were certainly not saying that only in this hypothetical situation would the book be worthless and both you and RLY know it. This excuse is so insubstantial I need only look at it for it to disappear entirely. Unless you are completely unaware of the entire list of discoveries made in the last thousand years and so not present in any major religious text (which I know you are not) you were most certainly making a non-hypothetical judgement.

Howzat!
6.Bah, you're boring when you go all "there is no spoon", still I managed to get a little fire outta ya
7.4 optimus prime smileys
8.Seems I'm the only one in this discussion willing to support my arguments with evidence. But you two outnumber me, so you must be right.

[HoosierDaddy]

This thread is complicated and has more currents than the Mighty Mississippi.

@Cold Iron: I am having a hard time nailing down your philosophy here, and I mean that in all seriousness. My re-readthrough had you playing a lot of devil's advocate, so I'm just hoping for a kind of succinct statement, otherwise I'm just confused as Hell. Or, you could ignore this. I probably would

BTW, I do remember posting in this thread this time. + less drunk points for me.

[Cold Iron]

Raymond Luxury Yacht;355747 said:

Here are all your posts in this thread. Notice how NOT ONE of them is factual. Some present your opinion incorrectly as fact, but they are not. Instead, as soon as you began posting, the thread immediately changed from people throwing out different ideas and commenting on them, to you being trollish. You really have a hard time interacting with other humans without being confrontational, don't you? This is not the only thread you've killed or attempted to kill by coming in and just attacking people's thoughts, often incorrectly.

Yeah I read my posts, I also wrote them Were you going to say how they are "wrong on multiple levels" or just rephrase it to "not factual" or "incorrect"?

What's wrong with a bit of confrontation? It's nothing personal as well xander knows. If you think I'm wrong that's fine, I'll argue it out with you, but we haven't gotten beyond you calling me names yet so I would say it is you who are killing the thread

[Cold Iron]

HoosierDaddy;355755 said:

This thread is complicated and has more currents than the Mighty Mississippi.

@Cold Iron: I am having a hard time nailing down your philosophy here, and I mean that in all seriousness. My re-readthrough had you playing a lot of devil's advocate, so I'm just hoping for a kind of succinct statement, otherwise I'm just confused as Hell. Or, you could ignore this. I probably would

BTW, I do remember posting in this thread this time. + less drunk points for me.

HD I'm not sure what you mean by my philosophy but I will do my best to cover all bases.

My position on the OP (that's the original post, not optimus prime) is that religious people would simply put aliens in the already long list of things not mentioned by their respective holy text, and have little to no problem with it as it really has little to no relevance to religion.

My position on xander (that's optimus prime) is that his comments were patronising and ignorant. I still like him though, for various reasons, one of which being his near unshakable optimism.

My position on religion is that it has little to do with the universe and a lot to do with humans. All art (literature is art, religious texts are literature) is analogous to real life, the point is to interpret the analogy. Organised religion seeks to teach people specific interpretations of this analogous art in order to manifest real effects on the world. The further you follow the white rabbit, the deeper the rabbit hole goes. It is my opinion that considering thousands of years of tradition and the words and works of as many very smart men to be worthless is ignorant and arrogant in the extreme not to mention disrespectful of our forefathers and most importantly harmful to your own potential happiness and success.

Does that answer the question?

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Quote

Thirdly you were certainly not saying that only in this hypothetical situation would the book be worthless and both you and RLY know it.

This is the post i was responding to when I said you were wrong on multiple levels. The first level of wrongness is when you said "you were certainly not saying that only in this hypothetical situation would the book be worthless." This is wrong because he was in fact saying just that. The second level of wrongness was when you said "both you and RLY know it." This is wrong because we knew no such thing, as it was incorrect.

My last post was inresponse to this:

Quote

Seems I'm the only one in this discussion willing to support my arguments with evidence.

I quoted all of your previous posts to illustrate that you were not in fact using any evidence, despite your claims to the contrary.

Did you notice that none of your posts contribute your thoughts to the topic? No, you just came in and started trashing other people's thoughts, impressively demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of what those thoughts were or what they meant.

The only reason I even brought any of this up is you inexplicably resurrected this thread, after several days of inactivity, not to continue any discussion of the topic but instead to stir the pot and try to piss people off. This is a pattern with you, so I do not take it personally even though I am involved, but I suggest you might find life more rewarding if you try to join in instead of just attacking others to provoke a response.

About calling you names, the only name I called you was trollish. Your behavior in this and many other threads provides ample evidence to this observation. I do not feel that saying you are trollish is any more name calling than if I said Apt was Danish, Zanth is in the army, or Shiara is a girl. These are observations of confirmed characteristics. If you don't want to be thought trollish (and I firmly believe you actually do, in keeping with your trollish behavior you love nothing more than to provoke a response showing you have annoyed someone) do not behave in a trollish manner.

Well, done with all of that. On topic, I think if intelligent life is discovered it will inspire a wide range of reactions. Some will lose faith, as this seems like something God would have mentioned at some time. Others will see it as an opportunity to prostelytize. Still others will feel that as non humans, these new aliens will not be eligible for salvation. This could lead to violence, or at least feelings of superiority. There are many other potential reactions. My point is it is impossible to make a prediction as to how all religious folk will react, their reactions will follow the whole possible spectrum, some positive, others negative.

[Cold Iron]

Raymond Luxury Yacht;355781 said:

This is the post i was responding to when I said you were wrong on multiple levels. The first level of wrongness is when you said "you were certainly not saying that only in this hypothetical situation would the book be worthless." This is wrong because he was in fact saying just that.

I disagree, and I have demonstrated why, I won't bother to repeat it, but what I will repeat is that you have again failed to demonstrate why I'm wrong other than simply stating it.

Quote

The second level of wrongness was when you said "both you and RLY know it." This is wrong because we knew no such thing, as it was incorrect.

I challenge you to truly state that you believe xander was able to completely separate himself from all prior opinions and biases and comment exclusively on the hypothetical situation of the existence of aliens. Please.

Quote

I quoted all of your previous posts to illustrate that you were not in fact using any evidence, despite your claims to the contrary.

My evidence was in the analysis of his posts (perfunctory as it was), what other evidence could there be? Unfortunately, however, you went only as far as quoting me, not quite enough I would say.

Quote

Did you notice that none of your posts contribute your thoughts to the topic?

Except number 2.

Quote

No, you just came in and started trashing other people's thoughts, impressively demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of what those thoughts were or what they meant.

What I demonstrated was an ability to articulate what exactly I thought was wrong about someone's post, all you have done is express that you dislike people who rock the boat. Good for you. I'd like to nominate you for the forum's best and fairest award.

Quote

The only reason I even brought any of this up is you inexplicably resurrected this thread, after several days of inactivity, not to continue any discussion of the topic but instead to stir the pot and try to piss people off. This is a pattern with you, so I do not take it personally even though I am involved, but I suggest you might find life more rewarding if you try to join in instead of just attacking others to provoke a response.

Well I wasn't on over the weekend so I responded at my earliest convenience. I often do join in instead of just attacking others to provoke a response but sometimes attacks are invited, and often they are quite fun. It seems that you yourself are not totally averse to a little verbal sparing, even if you are no good at it

Quote

About calling you names, the only name I called you was trollish. Your behavior in this and many other threads provides ample evidence to this observation. I do not feel that saying you are trollish is any more name calling than if I said Apt was Danish, Zanth is in the army, or Shiara is a girl. These are observations of confirmed characteristics. If you don't want to be thought trollish (and I firmly believe you actually do, in keeping with your trollish behavior you love nothing more than to provoke a response showing you have annoyed someone) do not behave in a trollish manner.

Not to nitpick but I think you also called me confrontational. Anyway I'm not a troll, I just enjoy a bit of action on the db. Relax and enjoy it, you know you do.

Quote

Well, done with all of that. On topic, I think if intelligent life is discovered it will inspire a wide range of reactions. Some will lose faith, as this seems like something God would have mentioned at some time. Others will see it as an opportunity to prostelytize. Still others will feel that as non humans, these new aliens will not be eligible for salvation. This could lead to violence, or at least feelings of superiority. There are many other potential reactions. My point is it is impossible to make a prediction as to how all religious folk will react, their reactions will follow the whole possible spectrum, some positive, others negative.

Finally, way to stay on topic :lachen70:

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I am masterful at staying on topic.

[Optimus Prime]

@CI, the last thing I'll say is that you read it wrong man. Yes..you did. I was not being patronizing or arrogant...far from it. I am humbled sometimes by other people's faith in things I cannot find faith in...hard to explain. RLY's right though, you do stir it up by attacking sometimes...but it's cool man...no worries. The other night I was in a bad mood and you actually were pissing me off. My grandmother is in the hospital and I just...I dunno...didn't want to deal with you. Anyway...perhaps our discussions can be more thought provoking if we both tighten up our sides of the arguments.

[Terez]

Peace on earth and goodwill toward men. And women.

[Optimus Prime]

Terez;356367 said:

Peace on earth and goodwill toward men. And women.

Shut it, you.

[Obdigore]

Terez;356367 said:

Peace on earth and goodwill toward men. And women.

Screw the women! Wait... is that the plan? good.

mmmmm women

[Cold Iron]

Optimus Prime;356352 said:

@CI, the last thing I'll say is that you read it wrong man. Yes..you did. I was not being patronizing or arrogant...far from it. I am humbled sometimes by other people's faith in things I cannot find faith in...hard to explain. RLY's right though, you do stir it up by attacking sometimes...but it's cool man...no worries. The other night I was in a bad mood and you actually were pissing me off. My grandmother is in the hospital and I just...I dunno...didn't want to deal with you. Anyway...perhaps our discussions can be more thought provoking if we both tighten up our sides of the arguments.

I'm sorry about your grandma, I lost my grandfather back in may so I know what you're going through. And as wrong as this may sound, one of the main reasons I do it to you is because it gets to you, it's boring picking on someone who isn't going to bite back, but a little bite back is all I want, I'm not trying to be rude or personal.

Anyway I do understand that you are a respectful guy, but I stand by my position that you were very glib in saying that holy books would be worthless in the event of aliens existing. I'm not even a member of any organised religion and I still find it offensive. Don't you think there's more to religion and religious texts than righteousness? Your position seemed to be that if aliens exist and your chosen holy book didn't mention it, the book must be wrong and is thus worthless. My point put more politely is that the book is wrong about lots of things, but it is still far from worthless. To put a simplified analogy to it, it's like saying the death penalty is wrong, so the legal system is worthless.

[Optimus Prime]

I'm not saying that at all CI, but let's just drop it. Of course I know you mess with me to get under my skin...and I'd say that's an even exchange Sometimes I feel like you get a little too angry....but I guess we both could pull back a bit at times.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Strangely enough, my grandfather is also in the hospital, which is screwing with my mood. I probably overreacted to you CI, for which I apologize.

Boys, I think it's time for a group hug.


CI, is that your hand on my ass?