[Silander]

This is from MoI an exchange between Krul and Lady Envy;

"Dassem Ultor, who was broken by Hood's taking of his daughter at the Time of the Chaining - this was a devastating blow. Dassem Ultor, the First Sword reborn—
'Do you think,' she asked slowly,'that Hood would have taken her for the Chaining, had I answered the summons?' Am I, she wondered, to blame for Dassem Ultor's loss?
Hood alone could answer that question, Lady Envy. And he'd likely lie, in any case. Dassem, his Champion - Dessembrae - had grown to rival his power. There is little value in worrying such questions, beyond the obvious lesson that inaction is a deadly choice. Consider: from Dassem's fall, a mortal empire now totters on the edge of chaos. From Dassem's fall, the Shadow Throne found a new occupant. "

Now I'm confused, exactly how long ago did Dassem fall? Not very long ago right? I mean a hundred or maybe 200 years before the main action with the Pannion Domain etc. It goes into it in Night of knives a little bit. It didn't seem that long in that book, before the alliance with the moranth granted.
Was there more than one Dasseem, has there always been one?

[Binder of Demons]

Dassem fell only about a year before the events in NIGHT OF KNIVES.

Which means it hasn't been too long at all relative to the events in the main Malazan books. Less than 10 years before the events of Gardens of The Moon (and by extension Pannion etc) I'd be reasonably sure.

As to how old Dassem Ultor was before his fall, that, is open to question. And how long had he been in the service of Hood, I don't know.

There is only one Dassem Ultor in Malazan history as far as we know. There have been many "Chainings" throughout their history, but the one referenced above was the most recent. Hope that is relatively clear?

[Aptorian]

As Binder says, a little more than ten years. About a year before the Night of Knives. GotM takes place in the 9th year of Laseens rule. And it's been perhaps a year since Pale by the beginning of MoI.

When the chaining occurred that took Dassems daughters is uncertain. Dancer was there, unascended, yet for Kellanved and Dancer to have known about this it probably ment it was during their long absence from the Empire.

[Silander]

I see. I thought there was just the one chaining, that was of the crippled God when he fell. Which is the one I'm assuming Krul refered to, the one Envy didn't attend?
Do they have to re-chain the crippled one very so often I wonder or why is that such a recent reference or perhaps with the first sword being reborn as Dassem that had some bearing on the situation.

[Aptorian]

The chainnings are subject to a lot of speculation. We've heard very little but it seems there's been at least three.

The first one after the CG fall, then perhaps a chaining at the time of Burns sleep and one that took place during the last hundred years.

Kruppe hints at multiple chainings in MoI, it also suggests that Kruppe knows all about these chainings and the CG work.

[Silander]

Ah right, cool well thats cleared that up! I would have liked to have seen more on Dassem, Ferrule, Temper and the boys but maybe we will even if its just in flash backs or something...

[Dancer+]

You might see two of these later in the books, maybe three.

Have you read NoK then? What point in the series are you upto?

[Dolorous Menhir]

The prologue of GotM, where pre-teen Ganoes met Whiskeyjack, occurred days after the "death" of Dassem Ultor at Y'Ghatan. That was a very short time (days, maybe weeks) before Laseen's coup, and by the time of the main body of GotM Laseen has been in power for ~9 years. When we get to MoI, Laseen is up to 10-11 years as Empress.

The reference to Dassem as "First Sword Reborn" has never been explained. The only other First Sword we know about is Tool - and though he is dead, he's not exactly in a position to be reborn as Dassem Ultor. Speculation I've seen here is that Dassem Ultor is a reincarnation of a First Sword from the early human empires of Dessimbelackis or (less likely) Kallor.

They're the only human powers we know of that could have had a First Sword that could've been reincarnated as Dassem. But it's important to note that we don't know if those two empires even had First Swords.

As for how old Dassem Ultor was (is), I don't know. I'm convinced he was Dessembrae before his death, so if he was already an ascendant while serving as First Sword then there is no limit to his lifespan that we know of.

[Silander]

I do agree with the idea that he was Dessembrae. A few of my buddies who have read the book are of the same opinion. Lord of tragedy ..plus the loss of his daughter seems to be one that had some profound implications.
As for where I am. I've read all the books and novellas and I have two of the three in hard-backed signed by SE.
I'm currently traveling so I've left them all in the hands of my younger brother (he better look after them), he is just getting in to them as well.
The only one I haven't had a chance to re-read is RG. But I need to re-read the bone-hunters at some point as well. I think I'll have enough time though.
They are books though, where an occasional re-read is not just desirable but also a pleasure. Every time I re-read them, I find new details that seem even more and more essential to the plot...genius!

[Dolorous Menhir]

There's a quote from one of the passages that opens each chapter that casually identifies Dassem Ultor as Dessembrae. I'm going out on a limb here, because I can't remember if it's in MoI or an earlier book.

Since it's revealed in such a low-key way I don't consider it a story spoiler though. Also, you're supposed to have worked it out I think.

The only controversy is about when he became Dessembrae. While he was still First Sword? Earlier than that? After his "death"?

I don't know, but I'm not convinced that whatever happened to his daughter is the source of his "grief".

[Aptorian]

Some NoK things.

I remember the GotM prologue aswell DM, but in NoK Temper seems to have been holed up on Malaz for about a years since Y'ghatan.

Spoiler

The way Dassem handles himself in the fight against the three Claws in NoK suggests that he's either ascendant or very much augmented by Hoods power. He's lifting around one man by his throat and using him as a shield before throwing him as a ragdoll. A soldier can be strong but not that strong

[Sinisdar Toste]

Aptorian;217521 said:

Some NoK things.

I remember the GotM prologue aswell DM, but in NoK Temper seems to have been holed up on Malaz for about a years since Y'ghatan.

Spoiler

The way Dassem handles himself in the fight against the three Claws in NoK suggests that he's either ascendant or very much augmented by Hoods power. He's lifting around one man by his throat and using him as a shield before throwing him as a ragdoll. A soldier can be strong but not that strong

Spoiler

kalam does almost the same kind of stuff in his BH rampage, but some would argue that he is the strongest non-ascendant human there is, so perhaps thats not a valid point

[Mentalist]

Spoiler

Yet others will argue that Kalam IS an Ascendant...due to his comment that "time seems to slow down" when he fights

[Sinisdar Toste]

i guess that could be construed that way, but many high level athletes report the same kind of feeling in our own thoroughly non magical world

[Lisheo]

Aye, its just adrenaline.

[Dancer+]

Spoiler

Dassem is and was an ascendant

[Aptorian]

The Cult of Dessembrae;218693 said:

Spoiler

Dassem is and was an ascendant

Yes, but the question was when was he an ascendant.

[Dancer+]

Spoiler

I'm saying he was an ascendant by the time of the events of the NoK flashback.
He was ascended rather than augmented by Hood's powers, at that point Hood had turned his back on Dassem anyway.

[Aptorian]

The Cult of Dessembrae;218843 said:

Spoiler

I'm saying he was an ascendant by the time of the events of the NoK flashback.
He was ascended rather than augmented by Hood's powers, at that point Hood had turned his back on Dassem anyway.

There's much truthiness in this.

[The Tyrant Lizard]

I remember Kruppe reading from Mammot's scroll's in GotM. I assumed the Chaining he was talking about there was the Chaining of the CG. He named a whole hoste of characters that were present (and I believe he half expected his mother's name to be on the list) and one of those named was Dessembrae - who it is then hinted is Dassem.

Surely he was already ascended by then - what use would a standard warrior be?