[amphibian]

tharinock;219555 said:

Also from what I understand Jesus died to repent for all of humanity's sins. Jews should be THANKED for killing Jesus if they really betrayed him. after all, if jesus did not die for our sins, then we would all go to hell.

How old are you? Based on this post, I would be surprised if you've made it out of your teens.

If you're going to go ahead and subscribe to the "Jesus was the Son of God, and sent to save humanity", then you also have to believe in the concept of free will. The ability to freely choose is what made the struggle between good and evil possible and thus Jesus never actually had to die.

Well, actually some branches of Christianity believe that God really controls everything, but most will stipulate that humans have true free will.

[The Tyrant Lizard]

amphibian;219641 said:

Well, actually some branches of Christianity believe that God really controls everything, but most will stipulate that humans have true free will.

Apart from being told to obey the ten commandments.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

Perhaps Im missing the point here, but wasnt the entire point of Jesus coming to Earth that he was betrayed and thus DIED FOR OUR SINS?!?

What if the Jewish crowd had actually said "no, fuck Barabas, let's save Jesus instead?"

Jesus would have had to say something like "oh, thanks alot guys, but, y'know, I was kind of banking on being crucified so Im gonna have to get myself arrested again."

If Jesus hadnt died, people would still have all them other sins, so surely Christians should thanks the Jews?

Bloody hell religious people are nutjobs.

[amphibian]

Thelomen Toblerone;219721 said:

Perhaps Im missing the point here, but wasnt the entire point of Jesus coming to Earth that he was betrayed and thus DIED FOR OUR SINS?!?

I think the point of Jesus' arrival was to show the way to salvation and the crucifixion was just the means he/God employed.

Aside: I am a Hindu and was thisclose to graduating from a Jesuit college with a philosophy degree. Alcohol and the realization that I didn't actually want to do that put a kibosh on that.

[Dolorous Menhir]

amphibian;219641 said:

How old are you? Based on this post, I would be surprised if you've made it out of your teens.

I think we're going to have to treat Tharinock gently. He's clearly labouring under a serious handicap when he engages in these arguments, but I'm not sure if that handicap is (a lack of) age or muddy thinking disguised as arrogance.

[MecnunK]

tharinock;215807 said:

It bothers me when people say, "Judas betrayed jesus, and judas was a jew, therefore jews betrayed jesus." That was because christians did not yet exist. just jews that did believe in christ and those that did not. Judas did believe in christ and was in fact one of his closest followers and chosen by the omniscent jesus for some reason. thus the man who betrayed jesus was clearly the closest thing at the time to official christianity.

Jesus was also a jew at the time no?

[tharinock]

dolorous it is a lack of age and a lack of sleep (about 4 hours a day, 6 on weekends if im lucky, thanks to my AP american history teacher) that disadvantages me, and a lack of christian education aside from what i hear from others. I am not saying that i believe jesus died to repent for our sins, especially consider i am an atheist and was raised as a jew.

[Dolorous Menhir]

All right Tharinock, I don't want to be criticising people for something they can't change. I'm not an old person in any way, but I said what I said because your posts simply put me off.

I am also an atheist, like you, and I'm not particularly knowledgeable about Christianity - and, like you, I don't let that prevent me from commenting on these matters. So perhaps I am being unfair.

[amphibian]

tharinock;224110 said:

dolorous it is a lack of age and a lack of sleep (about 4 hours a day, 6 on weekends if im lucky, thanks to my AP american history teacher) that disadvantages me, and a lack of christian education aside from what i hear from others. I am not saying that i believe jesus died to repent for our sins, especially consider i am an atheist and was raised as a jew.

Four hours of sleep, seven hours at school, an hour for transit to and from school, one hour or slightly more for the assorted meals and a ridiculously generous three hours for homework still leaves almost eight hours in a day. Stop playing World of Warcraft.

AP American History is a joke. When I was 16, I took Calculus, AP Biology, AP Chemistry, AP American History, Spanish 4 and was involved in three sports year round. I never spent more than two hours a day studying and I ended up with an average of 95 for all classes. American History was the least difficult of all. I think I got a 5, 4 and 4 on the bio, chem and history AP exams too.

Your time management is probably awful, however it is no excuse for writing a terrible post. Everyone is an idiot to some degree when they're in their early teens. There's no getting around it, but the realization and acceptance of that fact could let you get a head start on your peers. If you're interested in a topic that you do not know much about, do some reading (actual books > wikipedia > hearsay from the idiots in high school) and ask a few questions.

[tharinock]

first of all, world of warcraft sucks. almost as much as my six year old computer. and i don't want to start ranting about my life but sometimes i can't start homework until 9:30 p.m. and ap history would be easy if my teacher wasn't in his first year teaching ap, about half the things he tells us contradict each other. plus my parents have to spend a couple hours telling me how i am a failure at life every day etc...

[Dolorous Menhir]

I just want to know what AP is.

[ch'arlz]

Advanced Placement; college-level high school course.

[amphibian]

tharinock;224588 said:

first of all, world of warcraft sucks. almost as much as my six year old computer. and i don't want to start ranting about my life but sometimes i can't start homework until 9:30 p.m. and ap history would be easy if my teacher wasn't in his first year teaching ap, about half the things he tells us contradict each other. plus my parents have to spend a couple hours telling me how i am a failure at life every day etc...

You see these? These are called excuses. Stop making them.

Remain calm at all times, get your work done quickly and competently and the rest of your life will fall into place.

[cauthon]

Well, erm, for one thing, the Jews did look for the promised Messiah or Christ. If you read Daniel, you see that the time from the order to rebuild the temple until the coming of the messiah was 69*7 years. So they knew, but their religious leaders did not like somebody showing them their mistakes.

[Shinrei]

Iron Bars: "Jews don't kill gods.... I do."

[DurhangAddict]

I thought it was the Pharisees...


"I'm Brian and so's my wife!"

[Dancer+]

Banana;218939 said:

yeah that shit is crazy. Here in the States we still have people seeking monetary reparations from the government because their ancestors were slaves.

Next people will be claiming monetary reparations off governments for their own genetic defects because governments are meant to keep people happy and safe and they've failed to do so.

I have an idea, I'm going to claim monetary reparations from the government because some of my ancestors were probably farmers of the land, and they were probably exploited by the ruling body at that time. If that never happened I'd be a King now...:hand:

[Zelech]

cauthon;239833 said:

Well, erm, for one thing, the Jews did look for the promised Messiah or Christ. If you read Daniel, you see that the time from the order to rebuild the temple until the coming of the messiah was 69*7 years. So they knew, but their religious leaders did not like somebody showing them their mistakes.

I really like your last line there, because many people don't understand that point.

After all, culture hasn't changed that much over the millenia. The Jews clamored for a set of laws so that moral decisions weren't so hard (ala the 10 Commandments). We clamor for lawyers, judges, and legislators to duke out what is right and what is wrong.

After all, we know Musician A gets paid by Music Producing Co. B and in return Music Producing Co. B gets to profit by selling Musican A's work, but honestly we want to enjoy copies of Musician A's work without paying Music Producing Co. B.
Because, really, if we can enjoy it for free--and "show those greedy monopolists"--isn't that the right thing? [The answer is 'No', but of course many Americans think otherwise. And yes, music production companies are greedy--welcome to the real world].


One of Jesus's messages was this: Look, people--have a clean heart, and your actions and rewards will tell of it.

You reap what you sow. What's not fair about that? Unfortunately, many people try to tell you otherwise--"sure, you have free will and can have your opinions (so no need to feel bad for your actions, unless they really, really go against the law)".

Can there really be such a thing as spiritual maturity? You betcha. Because, after all, morals aren't determined by the political leaders of the day (whether they be "religious" leaders, legislators, emperors, kings), but the definition of punishable morals can be defined by political leaders.

[Cold Iron]

Zelech;242323 said:

I really like your last line there, because many people don't understand that point.

If the rest of your post was supposed to be the explanation, then this doesn't surprise me.

[pastures]

It is absolutely true that Christians betrayed Jesus. In fact, that's the point!! The point is to be betrayed by one of his own. The closer the betrayal, the greater the sacrifice, yes? So don't get upset by people who say it's the Jews who betrayed Jesus. They just don't know what they're talking about.