[Cold Iron]

I'm proud of you too. But Jesus drunk.

[Illuyankas]

It wasn't water to grape juice, you know.

[Bent]

Ahhh, but who ever said it was 100 proof PGA? I believe moderation is the key here.

[Illuyankas]

No-one's saying an Apt or Rodeo level of drinking is required, but not having booze at all seems like a vast overreaction.

[Bent]

Its a personal preferance for me, bibically speaking the bible doesn't forbid Alcohol consumption, but it does say for him who knoweth to do right and do it not, for him, that is sin,. the reverse of this is true, if to me drinking is a no no, and i do it anyway, for me, that is a sin. So in order to reduce my personal grief and reprocussion, I should reduce the level of drinking. Like I said, this is a personal thing, not one of the ten commandments.

[Cold Iron]

So as a Christian, you are free to reinterpret taught morality to suit your whim?

ETA: That was tongue-in-cheek, don't be offended, and it wasn't rhetorical, I'd like to discuss this.

[paladin]

well, christianity is taught by humans and interpretted by humans. everyone has their own view. my interpretation is fairly uncommon(i am a christian deist), but it is just that, an interpretation.

so to answer your question, to an extent, yes.

[Cold Iron]

And if everyone acted like that was true, there'd be a lot less arguments about it. Unfortunately, some people like to think their interpretation has divine justification.

[Bent]

Well, you see CI, there is a bit of a discrepency in the term "Christianity" in America at least. You see, Over here you have, Baptists, Southern Baptists, Catholics, Luthran, Prodestant, Church of Christ,Church of God, Methodists, Vineyard, tons of others, so you pretty much have to fit your Basic Principles and Beliefs with the "form " of Christianity that will meet your spiritual needs.

Fundamentally they are almost all the same however, Jesus was the Son of God, Born of a virgin mother, sacrificed to open a form of comunication between sinners and heaven, Resurected from the dead on the 3rd day, thus fulfilling the prophecy of the one true messiah. Everything else, and I do mean everything, is up to the style of religion.

For instance, My Southern Baptist beliefs, teach me that once I confess my sins before God and I feel conviction of those sins, I pray to Jesus, through the Holy Spirit, and I speak my belief that Jesus is the true messiah and my only way into heaven, plead for his forgivness(that he had to die)and am saved. Now I am what is considered an immature christian, I need to be taught, much as a child, the proper way to live, pray, witness, etc.

This is the basics, and to be honest, I am not the best example of a Christian, which means Christ-like. I have been saved through the grace of God, and that (according to my belief system) will never be taken away from me. Now this doesn't give me a free pass to do as I please, when I screw up, I get punished...If for instance I smoke pot, after giving my word to my wife that I will never do it again, and I do, well to me as I smoke I feel guilt, that means I am doing wrong....a day or two later something bad happens, I need cash but have lost it, my car breaks down, dog dies etc. No matter what happens, I accept it as my just desserts and move on, trying to improve, failing every day, but always striving to be a better person today than I was yesterday....

Didn't mean to go on and on, but thats just on view, Church of God members, believe that everytime you sin, you must ask forgivness, or you goto hell, even if you asked forgivness before. These are all things I have had to consider in finding the "right " place for me....but even now, I disagree with certain formalities....I just believe that faith will see me through any minor problems that may arise, and to be honest, after God assured me that I had been saved, every problem that I have seems pretty minor.

Questions...Thoughts?

[Bent]

And I don't mean to say that every day is a punishment, I mean to be honest, I believe that Christians suffer more BECAUSE they are going to heaven, you see according to the bible, the world will end and every man woman and child will be judged, if you are a SAVED person, you get riches rewards mansions, etc. ...If not, you are thrown into a pit of fire and utterly destroyed....so God punishes me now, because I will never be punished after I die. I know this is the basic problem with Chrisianity, they teach FEAR of God, over LOVE of God, but to be honest, this type of teaching is more and more being set aside. Again its the basic teachings that truly matter.

[Bent]

By the way, I just typed this entire response, while listening to DISTURBED - Inside the Fire...a song about the lead singer David's Girlfriend killing herself, and him standing over her body, while the Devil tries to convince him to kill himself and join her "Inside the fire" 's of hell.....so this is why I say, I am not quite "THERE"....but I may never really ever get where I feel I need to be.

[Cold Iron]

Quote

if you are a SAVED person, you get riches rewards mansions, etc.

Is this what you believe?

Quote

but I may never really ever get where I feel I need to be.

But do you know why?

[Bent]

A) yes, this is truly my belief, that this poor excuse for a planet(rapes, torture, murder etc.) is my hell, and when I die I will be judged and presented before Christ, in all of His glory. He will give the nod and I will be allowed to live in paradise forever. And boy thats a long time!

Yes, as a human, my goal is to live as Jesus lived, I will never be able to do this, as he never sinned(He was the fulfillment of the law(TEN COMANDMENTS) and as such I set a standard that I will never achieve....but that's not the point....the point is to TRY!

[Cold Iron]

A) that's not what i quoted. I meant this:

Quote

riches rewards mansions

No, it's because as you change, your interpretations will change.

[Bent]

A) YUP, mansion in the sky, rivers of milk and honey, every bit....but to be honest, I don't think it matters. It could be a 4 by 4 cell, with 3 squares, and its better than the alternative, but yes, I feel heaven will be a place without Status Quo, and all will be "comfortable"

Clarify please, I strive to be better, and so succeed, but I suppose the better response is this.... I set high standards for myself. Ultimately, I know I will never be as good as I hope.

[paladin]

by riches he means the definition of heaven that has streets paved of gold and such

[Cold Iron]

Bent;307942 said:

A) YUP, mansion in the sky, rivers of milk and honey, every bit....but to be honest, I don't think it matters. It could be a 4 by 4 cell, with 3 squares, and its better than the alternative, but yes, I feel heaven will be a place without Status Quo, and all will be "comfortable"

I'm trying to lead you to examining whether riches are something you truly desire.

Quote

Clarify please, I strive to be better, and so succeed, but I suppose the better response is this.... I set high standards for myself. Ultimately, I know I will never be as good as I hope.

Then shouldn't you only hope to try?

[Bent]

Cold Iron;308053 said:

I'm trying to lead you to examining whether riches are something you truly desire.


Then shouldn't you only hope to try?

A) Like I said, its not the riches (even though I feel that there will be those), so much as the oportunity to be in a place without pain, suffering, death, disease, etc. The whole thought of heaven is not and should not be limited to such base needs and wants. It, to me is more, the thoughts of walking with God and asking Him wh do we dream, and why did you make so many planets, and whats up with Deja-Vu?

If I only hope to try, I will, personally, become lazy and no loger feel the need to strive for better things.


Let me ask you a question CI, why do you ask these things, are you curious about the different belief systems, and wanting to learn other peoples ideas, or are you trying to contradict my belief system by questioning it?

Either way, I don't mind answering and coversing on the subject, I am just trying to get a feel as to what you hope to get out of this conversation if anything at all.

[Cold Iron]

Bent;308702 said:

A) Like I said, its not the riches (even though I feel that there will be those), so much as the oportunity to be in a place without pain, suffering, death, disease, etc. The whole thought of heaven is not and should not be limited to such base needs and wants. It, to me is more, the thoughts of walking with God and asking Him wh do we dream, and why did you make so many planets, and whats up with Deja-Vu?

If I only hope to try, I will, personally, become lazy and no loger feel the need to strive for better things.


Let me ask you a question CI, why do you ask these things, are you curious about the different belief systems, and wanting to learn other peoples ideas, or are you trying to contradict my belief system by questioning it?

Either way, I don't mind answering and coversing on the subject, I am just trying to get a feel as to what you hope to get out of this conversation if anything at all.

I'm merely trying to show you that I'm right. Your beliefs are all over the place, passionate and righteous. They come from emotional certainty, not reason. That is not to say that this makes them any less real or valid, but it does mean they are subject to changes in your emotional state.

Truth is a property of the present. Future and past have no truth. The truth about Jesus is the way he makes you feel right now.

[Bent]

Cold Iron;308707 said:

I'm merely trying to show you that I'm right. Your beliefs are all over the place, passionate and righteous. They come from emotional certainty, not reason. That is not to say that this makes them any less real or valid, but it does mean they are subject to changes in your emotional state.

Truth is a property of the present. Future and past have no truth. The truth about Jesus is the way he makes you feel right now.

They come from faith, so of course there is no real reasoning to them, or that would defeat the point. But you still don't seem to be correct, to me.
My beliefs stay constant. Jesus died and was resurected, virgin mother, etc. There is no change in that. And never will be. Ever. Because these fundamentals are the only things that I have in this world, everything else is just material. And now I have a question, as I am not certain at the moment, do ou believe in the fundamental parts of Christianity? Are you an athiest? what are our personal beliefs?