[Lisheo]

Is it possible that the ascendant list just isn't a complete one? Maybe SE wants to withhold the information about Iccy's capabilities?
He has worshippers, power, and also experience. He is as much an ascendant as Dassem Ultor, who was really just a a good warrior who Hood liked....

[Mentalist]

We really don't know enough about Dassem to speculate on this. HE was a good warrior, Brilliant general, sworn to Hood, participated at a Chaining, but hte nature of his link to Hood is really unclear...

I do think that the Giant wheel-bridge on the fringe of Edur lands is somehow related to what will be happening. As to what icarium became.. hard to say. I am sure that the Eres'al 's touch healed him partially. as to what he machine will end up doing to him.. well, that remains to be seen

[Crow Clan Baby]

I don't think Iccy's an ascendant either. He possesses a kind of immortality, and I think "true ascendancy" is reserved for mortal species. How this fits in with Hood being a Jaghut, I don't know, but we shouldn't assume that everything has been revealed.

[ShadowOwl]

He said he was outside of time and he expected his ritual to bring him back into time. Maybe the Azath he killed was Time aspected, and if so, it makes sense that he would have no memory of his life, and be thrown out of the flow of real time. So his machines were all time aspected and needed his blood to complete the ritual. Like Krul used his blood to create the warrens, Iccy thought he could use his blood to bring the warren of time back into existence?

[Sinisdar Toste]

well iccy has a ascendant type title, lifestealer, slayer however you say, and he is worshipped. but i can agree that he is also something totally different

[Lisheo]

Hmm. This is complex. But I think we can all agree that the machine was time-aspected. What it will do, considering it was broken, we can only guess.

[Seed]

Hmm a thought on the damage that occured to icarium during the destruction of the Azath. We know one of/the purposes of the Azath is to hold, bind and contain. They anchors realms as we know, look at the refugium, and the attempt to heal the warren of shadow which was the Azath Icarium destroyed. In that destruction not only did the partial healing unanchor as it were, icarium himself also became dislodged from the normal flow of the world, of time. Without that link to causality, he can only exist in the moment, doomed to never be able to string those moments into a consecutive timeline of his life, only grasping at each as they come close enough, when brought to the surface of his mind by his travels.

In referencing Krul when activating the machine, (+rep for cerveza for his cool description of what the machine does) I think it was to take in the memories of an entire civilisation that was potentially just sitting there as it were, and project it into himself, housing this memory of time. in his personal warren, legacy of his TTT blood. Perhaps even bringing back all the dead/ghosts/spirits caught and lingering as a relic of the ritual of gothos in this new memory realm into being like the pre-azath refugium. Jacaruku style engulfing, but of a slightly more intangible flavour. He probably built it at the start of the first closure and was there in the right place at the end of the seventh closure to activate it.

-Seed ...doesn't believe in coincidence

[Binder of Demons]

there was a previous thread that covered some of this ground re: "If K'Rul can, why not me?"
[thread]8245[/thread]

I agree with most of what Cerveza and Seed have said. But here are my original thoughts and the books quotes again just for specificity.

Binder of Demons;207589 said:

I took that reference to relate to Icarium's search for his memories.

He early makes a statement about memories not being isolated things and that from these memories comes a sense of self, which he did not possess.
And Icarium felt that without that knowledge he was still prone to being manipulated.

So this machine he made seems to be a means for him to regain his memories, especially judging by the way it sucked out the memories of everyone in it's vicinity.

Whereas K'rul effectively bound himself to the world to allow his blood to form the basis of the warrens, it would appear that Icarium has bound himself (or rooted himself as it says in the book) to the earth through his blood as well.

Quote

To measure time, one must begin. To grow futureward, one must root. Deep into the ground with blood.
I built this machine. This place that will forge my beginning. No longer outside the world. No longer outside time itself. Give me this, wounded or not, give me this. If K'rul can, why not me?

To my mind the quote can be seen as Icarium feeling that without his memory, he lives in a kind of limbo, neither fully of this world, or of this time. Which ties in with his early statement about the nature of memories and ones sense of self. At that point he declared that his time of ignorance was about to end!

So I figured the machine was supposed to help him recover not just his own memories but also those of others, to understand he he truly was, and who he could become? I don't know though, I have a vague idea in my head that makes more sense, but it's bloody hard to write it down in a coherent fashion. We don't know yet if this activated the other machines he built as well in other parts of the world?

I'm still no further along with what I think the effects of the machine being broken will be?

[cerveza_fiesta]

Binder of Demons;216213 said:

I'm still no further along with what I think the effects of the machine being broken will be?

I honestly think it just means it didn't work and Iccy got boned.

BUt maybe, and I hope for this, that it made Iccy go friggin nuts and there's another major conflict with him ad QB or Trull's ascendant form.

[Abyss]

Lisheo;216183 said:

Hmm. This is complex. But I think we can all agree that the machine was time-aspected. ...

Actually, it sucked the memories out of the brains of bystanders. There MAY have been a time element to it, but whether that's how it worked or the only way it worked is waaaay open, imnsho.

- Abyss, professional brain sucker.

EDIT: to note this is my 3000th post.

- Abyss, clearly needs less leisure time (aka procrastination).

[cerveza_fiesta]

Abyss;216243 said:

Actually, it sucked the memories out of the brains of bystanders. There MAY have been a time element to it, but whether that's how it worked or the only way it worked is waaaay open, imnsho.

- Abyss, professional brain sucker.

It worked by magic...duh. Gawd u ppl r so teh NoObz!!!111!!!LOLLOL!!!1!!!!ONE!!11

I am so malazan-l33t

Too bad that explanation doesnt work in the real world anymore.

[Cougar]

I think mr beer_party is losing his marbles.

[Abyss]

cerveza_fiesta;216246 said:

It worked by magic...

Too bad that explanation doesnt work in the real world anymore.

As opposed to all those times back in your happy place when that explanation DID work, yes?

- Abyss, prefers to blame aliens.

[cerveza_fiesta]

Abyss;216253 said:

As opposed to all those times back in your happy place when that explanation DID work, yes?

- Abyss, prefers to blame aliens.

exactly. Aliens is my second favourite explanation

[Mentalist]

Hmmm... this is kinda off, but do we Really know that the Azath Iccy destroyed in Jhag Odhan was aspected to shadow?
My reason to doubt it is that it was replaced by Tremorlor ("house of Life in Trellish"), and we were told in MoI that there's one Azath on every continent.

This also opens room for speculation as to where the next Azath on Letheras will be. I like to think it will be in Awl'Dan

[Aptorian]

There's an Azath on every continent? Is that the specific wording?

I thought they just popped up where needed... I doubt that the Azath of Lether will return cause I think it's seed was Kettle and so the treehouse is now situated in SD.

[cerveza_fiesta]

Aptorian;216265 said:

There's an Azath on every continent? Is that the specific wording?

I thought they just popped up where needed... I doubt that the Azath of Lether will return cause I think it's seed was Kettle and so the treehouse is now situated in SD.

I think that is basically the idea. Whether by design or coincidence, there seems to be one on every continent.

Also, are the azath aspected to anything? I thought they were all aspected to azath...kind of their own thing.

[Mentalist]

Deadhouse
House of life-Tremorlor
The Darujhistan one is referred to as "Finnest"- House of Ice...
Letheras one might have bee death-aspected..

Plus, the idea advanced elsewhere was that when iccy destroyed the Jhag Odhan Azath, he shattered a piece of the shattered KE...

[Sinisdar Toste]

i thnk in MOI the mhybe makes a point to ganoes paran that the azath houses could very well represent the warrens, she even states that once you have access to a house you can go into all the other warrens cuz the azath hold all the gates. kind of sounds like the azath hold all the cards as if they are the power behind the power of the warrens. krul could probably explain it better, but tremorlor - house of life, deadhouse, finnest - hold of ice. we need to find out more names of the azath houses

[cerveza_fiesta]

kud13;216273 said:

Deadhouse
House of life-Tremorlor
The Darujhistan one is referred to as "Finnest"- House of Ice...
Letheras one might have bee death-aspected..

Plus, the idea advanced elsewhere was that when iccy destroyed the Jhag Odhan Azath, he shattered a piece of the shattered KE...

I didnt know the other ones. I figured deadhouse was just a name. Is there any other reason for thinking there's an aspect other than the name? The underwater one is...um...water aspected?

Could it also mean that combining the forces used in the new refugium azath creation (shadow from scabby's finnest and death from Kettle / the old lether azath) mean that its doubly aspected?