[Aptorian]

Don't really know what this thread should lead to but after reading NoK and on my first reread of RG I've been picking up on more Drek references.

In both books mentioned above Drek and some kind of Drek worms are mentioned gnawing/digging into the earth/Burn. In NoK a really disgusting picture of a giant worm burying into Burn is made.

It just made me think about what we know of Drek, which is next to nothing, but what would Dreks opinion on the whole CG vs. Burn thing be? Drek is the god of decay, rot, even infestation maybe?

Some have speculated that Drek is old enough to be a EG even though he's not on the Baruk list. events in BH suggests he/she/it's not picking sides in the pantheon war.

I wonder if a sick and dying world wouldn't be something for Drek to sink its teeth in if it in fact Drek is a real huge, godlike worm munching and feeding on death and decay.

[Shurque's biatch]

Good topic.

Considering the pivotal role that Tay played and he being an ex high priest, it makes me curious. How is it that Drek fed all the active priests to the worms because they were rotted through with CG/chaos, but skipped Tay, who is an active player? If Drek is trying to stay neutral, taking out an ex that IS engaged would be a more obvious approach.

Of course, he may just be waiting for sloppy seconds when Burn goes down...

[James Hetfield]

When Kell and Cotil were conquering Kartool and other areas of the known empire, did they not basically wipe out Drek, or at least his following? Was it to consolidate their power and X out any opposition or did they know something about Drek that inspired them to do it?
It could be that Drek is in league with the CG.
Did they conquer that portion of the empire before or after they went away for a few years? Who knows what they learned while away.

[Ereko]

Isn't that why Drek's priests got slaughtered because they chose the wrong side by choosing the CG!?

Or did I totally missread that whole thing with Banaschar?

[Dolorous Menhir]

I think D'rek is an old power with too much invested in the status quo to support the CG. It'll be in his/her best interest to keep things the way they are. I would group D'rek with Hood in the "non-Elder but old and opposed" anti-CG faction.

D'rek killed his/her entire priesthood because the priesthood wanted to side with the CG. That seems to be a clear indication that D'rek isn't a CG fan.

Kellanved would've destroyed the cult of D'rek in Kartool because they were the previous ruling power on the island, and it's par for the conqueror's course to destroy what came before so it can't oppose you again. I don't think you can draw any CG-Shadowthrone relationship conclusions from it.

Shurque said:

Considering the pivotal role that Tay played and he being an ex high priest, it makes me curious. How is it that Drek fed all the active priests to the worms because they were rotted through with CG/chaos, but skipped Tay, who is an active player? If Drek is trying to stay neutral, taking out an ex that IS engaged would be a more obvious approach.

Of course, he may just be waiting for sloppy seconds when Burn goes down...

Shadowthrone asked Tayschrenn about that during their conversation at the end of BH. Tays said that D'rek tried to kill him, but that he talked her down. That really annoyed Shadowthrone for some reason.

[Vengeance]

James Hetfield;213300 said:

When Kell and Cotil were conquering Kartool and other areas of the known empire, did they not basically wipe out Drek, or at least his following? Was it to consolidate their power and X out any opposition or did they know something about Drek that inspired them to do it?
It could be that Drek is in league with the CG.
Did they conquer that portion of the empire before or after they went away for a few years? Who knows what they learned while away.

I am pretty sure that Drek isn't in league with CG. On pg 923 (us) in BoneHunters "'They prayed but did not ask, nor beseech, nor plead,' Pearl said 'Their prayers were a demand. The betrayal...was theirs, wasn't it?' The Claw sat forward. 'Banaschar. Are you telling me that D'rek killed them all? Her entire priesthood? They betrayed her! in what way? What did they demand?'
'There is war,'he said in a dull voice.
'Yes. War among the god, yes - gods below - those worshippers chose the wrong side!'
'She heard them,' Banaschar said, forcing the words out. 'she heard them choose. The Crippled God. And the power they demanded was the power of blood. Well, she decided, if the so lusted for blood... she would give them all they wanted.' His voice dropped to a whisper. 'All they wanted.'
'Banascher... hold on a moment...why would D'rek's followers choose blood, the power of blood? That is an Elder way. What you are saying makes no sense.'
'The Cult of the Worm is ancient, Pearl. Even we cannot determine just how old. There is mention of a goddess, the Matron of Decay, the Mistress of Worms - a half dozen titles - in Gothos's Folly - in the fragments possessed by the temple. Or at least, once in the temple's possession - those scrolls disappeared -'
'When?'
Banascher managed a bitter smile. 'On the night of Tayschrenn's flight from the Grand Temple in Kartool. He has them. He must have them. Don't you see? Something is wrong! With all of this! The knowledge that I hold, and the knowledge that Tayschrenn must possess - with his access to Gothos's Folly - we must speak, we must make sense of the what has happened, and what it means. This goes beyond the Imperium - yet this war among the gods - tell me, whose blood do you think will be spilled? What happened in the cult of D'rek, that is but the beginning!'"

I think that from that we can take that D'rek isn't in league with the Crippled God and very well might be an elder god, or even older. Remember that the Beast gods are older then the elder gods. Maybe D'rek is an Elemental God.

[Vengeance]

Dolorous Menhir;213305 said:

I think D'rek is an old power with too much invested in the status quo to support the CG. It'll be in his/her best interest to keep things the way they are. I would group D'rek with Hood in the "non-Elder but old and opposed" anti-CG faction.

D'rek killed his/her entire priesthood because the priesthood wanted to side with the CG. That seems to be a clear indication that D'rek isn't a CG fan.

Kellanved would've destroyed the cult of D'rek in Kartool because they were the previous ruling power on the island, and it's par for the conqueror's course to destroy what came before so it can't oppose you again. I don't think you can draw any CG-Shadowthrone relationship conclusions from it.



Shadowthrone asked Tayschrenn about that during their conversation at the end of BH. Tays said that D'rek tried to kill him, but that he talked her down. That really annoyed Shadowthrone for some reason.

I think that was probably because it ment that ST couldn't kill him. After all if Tay was able to stop an older god like D'rek, then he could probably stop ST and that pissed ST off. On another note since Tay was once the High Priest of D'rek, then maybe he has access to elder powers himself. Or not. Just cause he is a bad ass who went toe to toe with Rake doesn't mean he has elder powers.

I love it when I talk myself out of ideas.

[Seed]

Her manifestation as a worm in the guts of banaschar during RG I find particularly fascinating. Did she ride all of her high priests in turn like that back in the day? Curdle and Telorast could smell the goddess in him. It would have made it particularly easy for her to wipe out her priests, manifest inside a worshipper and start chewing.

Even though gods appear to have control of their shape and form, I'd really like her to be an ascendant worm creature instead of starting out as an Imass (like the original apsalar) or jaghut or ancient human. There is the constant theme of intelligent species/races rising into civilisation over time and then fading (or being wiped out) to be replaced by the next new sentient species. As I postulated in my crazy theory I'd like to think of her as the sole remanant of an unnamed elder worm/parasite species that were wiped out by the forkrul or something in ancient times. It's quite possible she migrated from a different realm back in the day, fleeing the forkrul and their Just wars (where these wormy species could have been a demon equivalent, denizens of a far realm like the kenrallah or the aptorians etc) who knows, more evidence is required.

It's just that I can't think of any other gods who have chosen a non-humanoid manifestation that didn't start out as nonhumans...eg togg and fandaray.

Hmmm, I just had another thought relating to her being a denizen/demon of another realm that skipped ship and hid out on the Malaz world, we know warrens (multiple, I noted it was a plural when I re-read MoI, and since it was kallor rabbiting on about them I'd say it's reasonably accurate, he does like to toot his own knowledge horn as it were) were shattered during the Fall as per MoI, maybe the Worms home realm was one of those that were broken and she was the sole survivor. Speculation abounds!

-Seed ...has got a gut feeling about this, it could be the Worm!

[Sinisdar Toste]

those certainly are crazy ideas, but they make sense in a way. d'rek could be an ancient ascendant that no one ever wanted to kill because her aspect is never ending. everything decays and rots in time and it's useless to fight it, ergo, its useless to fight d'rek

[Abyss]

Moreover, if the CG, chaos, or whatever is seeking to Destroy The World succeeds, no more rot, so ample reason for Drek to oppose the CG.

Given what we've been told re the Errant pre-MTand Greyfrog's gods, it's interesting that rather than be influenced by its worshippers, drek elected to take them out, ie: its power was greater than that of its worshippers over it.

I'm not certain what Bana was feeling was an actual worm, or just the sensation of Drek manifesting/linking to him, but it seems he got his High Priesthood after all. One could say Bana can't worm his way out of this one...

- Abyss, will never finish a bottle of tequila again.

[Lisheo]

Once things are totally destroyed, theres nothing to decay, so I suspect D'rek is taking on the CG.
Shes mentioned in Gothos's Folly, which should make her older than Hood, at a guess?
Wouldn't that make her Elder?
Lastly, I wonder, if shes killed all her worshippers (does Tays count as one still?), could she be the first real casualty of the war?

[Abyss]

Lisheo;213435 said:

... if shes killed all her worshippers (does Tays count as one still?), could she be the first real casualty of the war?

Clearly not, since she still has Bana at a minimum. Plus we only saw the purge of the priesthood in the Malaza Empire. She likely has any number of worshippers who weren't pimpimg the CG agenda.

But i imagine she would have taken a hit, power-wise, in wiping out the 'leaders' of people who worshipped her.

- Abyss, notes so much for a forgiving, merciful god...

[Aptorian]

Lisheo;213435 said:

Once things are totally destroyed, theres nothing to decay, so I suspect D'rek is taking on the CG.
Shes mentioned in Gothos's Folly, which should make her older than Hood, at a guess?
Wouldn't that make her Elder?
Lastly, I wonder, if shes killed all her worshippers (does Tays count as one still?), could she be the first real casualty of the war?

It's mentioned above that D'rek likes her blood. If she really is "blood for the bloodgods" old, killing of all her priests and acolytes inside her own temples would have been a boost not a wound.

Their decaying bodies just become more food for the god.

[Skywalker]

Vengance;213319 said:

'The Cult of the Worm is ancient, Pearl. Even we cannot determine just how old. There is mention of a goddess, the Matron of Decay, the Mistress of Worms - a half dozen titles - in Gothos's Folly - in the fragments possessed by the temple. Or at least, once in the temple's possession - those scrolls disappeared -'
'When?'
Banascher managed a bitter smile. 'On the night of Tayschrenn's flight from the Grand Temple in Kartool. He has them. He must have them. Don't you see? Something is wrong! With all of this! The knowledge that I hold, and the knowledge that Tayschrenn must possess - with his access to Gothos's Folly - we must speak, we must make sense of the what has happened, and what it means. This goes beyond the Imperium - yet this war among the gods - tell me, whose blood do you think will be spilled? What happened in the cult of D'rek, that is but the beginning!'"

Ok, crazy theory based on the title in bold above...

D'rek, the Worm of Autumn, is actually a KCCM Matron, who was in exile until she decided to get back in the game to oppose the CG. When she tried to kill Tayschrenn, he made a bargain with her - use of the Imperial Warren to hide her KCCM air fortresses in exchange for his life, and peace with the Malazan Empire... possibly even the exile of the Adjunct, so that the 14th goes to oppose the CG on Lether.

what say?

EDIT: Maybe she even killed all the priests using a Matron scream ?

EDIT: Worm (Wyrm) is known to be applicable to dragons... maybe to all reptiles? hence KCCM

[Aptorian]

sky_walker;213474 said:

Ok, crazy theory based on the title in bold above...

D'rek, the Worm of Autumn, is actually a KCCM Matron, who was in exile until she decided to get back in the game to oppose the CG. When she tried to kill Tayschrenn, he made a bargain with her - use of the Imperial Warren to hide her KCCM air fortresses in exchange for his life, and peace with the Malazan Empire... possibly even the exile of the Adjunct, so that the 14th goes to oppose the CG on Lether.

what say?

EDIT: Maybe she even killed all the priests using a Matron scream ?

EDIT: Worm (Wyrm) is known to be applicable to dragons... maybe to all reptiles? hence KCCM

I like the Worm = Wyrm = Dragon/KCCM thing.

But the KCCM don't need to bargain with any one about taking up residence in the Imperial Warren. The Empire holds no claim to the place and KCCM should be powerfull enough that no ascendant power wants to anger them unless they have no choice.

Wor

[Skywalker]

Agreed... they didn't need the permission... but Imperial agents are potentially the only ones who regularly access the Imperial Warren and know that it is a reasonably secluded, less used place to hide (except for the 'indigenous' elements in the warren hinted at by Pearl... but that may be a GOTMism)

[Mentalist]

hmm. need to think on this... worms, maggots, great Ravens... .i'll be back once I hammer out a crazy theory-esque connection.....