[Tamilyrn]

On recommendation from this thread (thanks Darkwatch) I've just finished Chris Woodings Weavers trilogy and it was pretty good reading .... although the atmosphere of the books was quite gloomy.

Off to try Zelazny now - I've shied away from these books several times so it's time to take the plunge.

Has anyone read Simon R. Greens Nightside novellas - there are more about 'gifts' than magic as such but they are fun reads and have more of a heaven/hell take on things. An english Harry Dresden but with less depth. Still counts as magic in my head though ;-)

[Mentalist]

Hmmm.. Biased Eastern European that I am, i feel obligated to mention Lukyanenko's "Nightwatch"... the idea of Twilight where the Others get their powers and more importantly, how the morality of their every action affects them (by using their power for selfish reasons, dark Others become ugly and mishapen in their true, Twilight appearance), the idea that the Others depend on regular people to provide them with magic, the ability to harvest respective emotions for strength... just very nice and complex and yet original...

[Pallol One Eye]

Lyndon Hardy, in his Master of the 5 Magics did a great job of using 5 (duh) different types of Magic, with detailed rules and laws for each type.

Magic, Sorcery, Alchemy, Wizardry and Thaumaturgy were his five types. Sorcery used repetition and the rule "thrice spoken, Once fulfilled" as it's defining logic. Wikipedia has a good description here

http://en.wikipedia....the_Five_Magics

[Masonity]

No-one else like Pratchett's magic system?

In general, it doesn't work. Or doesn't work properly. Or works perfectly, but in an unforseen way.

Basically, the only true law of magic on the Discworld seems to be Murphy's Law.

[Fiddler]

my favorite magic system is the one from Michael Moorcock's various books, It's kinda Celtic, kinda gnostic, kinda spooky philosophy, and maybe a racial ability or two, but it's mysterious and my first love in fantasy. Basically, the entire series has magicians of varying caliber up to and including Elric and Corum, two of the best antagonists in fantasy imho, yet their magic use did not define them, ala Gandalf or Quick Ben. Most often their use of magic would be as a last resort summoning type ala Elric summoning Arioch, and failing as often as not to get any help from such an evil being. Or the Summoning of Corum into his world's future by a desperate people who believed he was some kind of god, and his subsuquent betrayal by said people. *shiver* such good stuff.

Erikson Rocks certainly, and is #2 on my list of coolest magic.
RJ has that element thing down, if only I could get past all the spankings in his books and retrieve the plotline he lost...
LOTR cause it's just cool

[Hume]

Donaldson and Eriksons I like the most

[Elan Morin Tedronai]

The already mentioned Fae from the Coldfire trilogy I like a lot, and Jordan's en Bakker's magic systems are also great.

Reading Mistborn atm, and the Allomancy concept is really brilliant I think loving the book itself too sofar, but as mentioned before, lots of potential in this burning of metal idea - love it

[pastures]

I have read a fair bit of SFF and can only remember a few magic systems - those that stood out for me.

1. Runelords. I really liked that system, though the story could be better. The title of the first book The Sum of All Men is what i call a REAL title. To be literally a superman leeching off others is a cool concept.

2. Riftwar/Serpentwar/Empire series by Raymond Feist. I liked this system back then when i was 17. Very simple system based on the "real world". That is, the manipulation of matter/energy (same thing if u know your physics) with the power of the mind.

3. Wars of Light and Shadow by Janny Wurts. Before Erikson, i used to swear by Wurts. I read the Empire series and was shocked by how much better it was than the Riftwar series. But she is a female writer and Erikson is a male writer. There's a difference in writing style that i see between female and male fantasy writers, but that might just be me. Anyway, her magic systems (also in Cycle of Fire) are pretty cool (nothing too fancy) and very visually compelling (like Erikson's and lots of other female writers also have visually stunning magic).

4. Malazan Book of the Fallen. Needless to say, this system (that is, the Hold/House system, not the older ritual magic system) is great with its interaction between different flavours of magic and its connection to power (both sorcerous and mundane) and central characters. One thing that puzzles me though is if all dragons are aspected to a particular flavour of magic, why is Starvald Demelain a realm unto its own? Wouldn't Starvald Demelain be the overarching Hold? But then, it may be that Starvald Demelain only contains all the younger warrens (is SD some kind of unformed unaspected, or infinite aspected, source of magic?), and there are some Elder magic (e.g. Kurald Galain - see K'rul's heart for explanation) that is outside of Starvald Demelain, but then why is there a human Warren of Darkness (Rashan, i believe)? As it is, no one truly understands as yet how magic/ascendancy works, and Erikson is still writing. Time will tell if Erikson himself knows how his system works. Maybe it will ultimately still contain an element of mystery, like true magic, about it. Anyway, what i'd like to say is that Erikson's system, like most systems of magic, relies on power of the mind over matter/energy. However, in Erikson's system, his world is more of a string theory-type world, where there are many "layers" to the universe. That is why it can give rise to creatures more powerful than gods, bcos they can tap into more of a layer or more layers. So in Erikson's system, when magic is unleashed, additional energy is put into the natural realm, and indeed the natural realm is just another layer. The interaction between Burn and K'rul, for example, is not at all clear (some kind of superimposition? - think string theory again). Basically, each Realm (which is both magical and mundane) casts a shadow into another Realm (usually the 'real' world). And movement between the Realms is simply dimension shifting (or something like that). Anyway, i think that the total energy of all the Realms can neither be added to or subtracted from, but the balance between Realms can be changed, but in the long run it more or less evens out. But i think i digress.

5. Earthsea by Ursula Le Guin. This was the first system of magic i came across. True Speech. Now that was something. It was only later on in life that i realised that if any magic was possible in our own world, this would be the most potent manifestation of that power. That is why our earthly (traditional) magic often involves incantations. It is the simplest means of translating what is in the supernatural (or metaphysical) realm (our thoughts) into the natural (or phsyical) realm (through words/sound waves). I have since learned the power of Names and Words, so this has got to be the best system for me since it most closely mirrors real life.

6. Dune by Frank Herbert. While not strictly magic, Isaac Asimov was fond of quoting Arthur C Clarke's third law of prediction: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." The abilities of the Bene Gesserit (the witches, as they were called) were pretty much akin to magic. Reading nuances and subtleties in body language, Voice, total physical control of the body down to the molecular level (immunity to poison and immortality) are all amazing concepts and abilities that can be construed as magical. Not to mention prescience. Visions and prophecies are almost definitely within the realm of magic.

[polishgenius]

I read the first two of Daniel Abraham's Long Price quadrilogy (they were released as one book in the UK), and the magic system there is quite interesting. It's pretty simple, but ended up being quite hard to describe:

Basically you have the 'Andat', spirit-type beings (of the Japanese/Easter idea of spirit) that are described as simply a thought or idea. Each one is held created by a trained 'poet' who has to exactly describe it as a thought in order to give it form and bind it. Then they can force it to do feats that go with the name. For example the thought 'Seedless' can be used to clear seeds out of picked cotton bales, also used to perform abortions. 'Stone-made-soft', pretty self-explanatory, used in mining.
However since a thought's natural state isn't existence they're always fighting the poet to be free. And failing to bind one or losing a binding results in having to pay the price, which usually involves a particular sort of death.


I don't think it could stand up to an epic fantasy, because they're best done in moderation as in the books, but since the books are political-based and quite short, they work very well.

[Dag]

I know it's already been mentioned by Tamilyrn, Obdigore, cervantor and EMT, but I'd like to add my vote for it: Sanderson's metal-magic in Mistborn, Allomancy and Feruchemy - the concepts are just awesome, and he manages to explain the system(s) so clearly and logically that one might think - OK, I could try this at home...

[Fid's Fiddle]

I find the system of magic in the recent Obsidian Trilogy by Mercedes Lackey and James Mallory to be intriguing as well. The concept of Wild vs. High Magic based on the quintessential nature vs. science theme plays well in a world of demons, elves, men and an array of other creatures. I couldn't put these books down...

And I only recently became familiar with Glen Cook's other great series (the Black Company chronicles have already been mentioned) with the reprinting of the first three Dread Empire tales in A Cruel Wind). Magic is based on the ability to tap into the Power, which seems to wax and wane at the whim of The Star Rider (and other "gods"?). You can definitely see linkages to what Erikson has created. And it's a rippin' good read as well.

SIDE NOTE: And in the third Dread Empire novel, All Darkness Met, I had the unanticipated pleasure of discovering what I assume is the basis for my favorite TotME creatures: the Hounds of Shadow. Different context and form, but undeniably the genesis. Check it out if you haven't read it yet.

[Gratillonius]

The best systems of magic are those of Tolkien and Erikson. In Tolkien we have a world with just a little magic. Normally the beings that use magic are spiritual like the valar and maia. The elfs also have some magic which the acquire through study and craft. For example the rings of power or the use of the river to hit the balck riders by Elrond. I love Tolkien magic because is subtle.

On the other hand we have Erikson, which managed to do something I thought was impossible. I always thought that when you use a lot of magic in a story was detrimental, that it would make that story less serious. Erikson proved me wrong. In Erikson's Books there is so much magic and fantasy, but at the same time his world is believable. It is amazing what he does, and without a doubt he is one of the greates fantasy writers of all time.

[Blend]

How bout demon magic in the Bartemius Trilogy by Jonathan Swift? I thought it was very cute, and a very interesting idea! Humans can't do magic, they summon demons to do all magical things for them. Quite interesting, that!

[Darkwatch]

Blend;235340 said:

How bout demon magic in the Bartemius Trilogy by Jonathan Swift? I thought it was very cute, and a very interesting idea! Humans can't do magic, they summon demons to do all magical things for them. Quite interesting, that!

Then how do they summon the demons?

[Skywalker]

Blend;235340 said:

How bout demon magic in the Bartemius Trilogy by Jonathan Swift? I thought it was very cute, and a very interesting idea! Humans can't do magic, they summon demons to do all magical things for them. Quite interesting, that!

Um... not that I want to be a killjoy... but Jonathan Swift wrote Gulliver's Travels. Jonathan Stroud wrote Bartimaeus.:outta:

[Blend]

sky_walker;235443 said:

Um... not that I want to be a killjoy... but Jonathan Swift wrote Gulliver's Travels. Jonathan Stroud wrote Bartimaeus.:outta:

Heh... Yeh, so maybe I'm not so swift...

And they summon the demons using a complex ritual, encantations and such.. It's technically magic, but as far as things like shooting fire from their hands, or making themselves fly, or something like that, it's done by binding demons to yourselves to fly you around, or to shoot fire from your hands as you make certain motions with your hands, or whatever... I thought it was rather clever in a cute sorta way!

[Darkwatch]

So it's like a demonic version of Pokemon/Digimon...

[Mentalist]

hmmm.. I am making my way through volume 1 of the "Chronicles of Hjerward", by Nick perumov...

Apparently, only one of his books to be translated into English is the one Im reading right now--"Godsdoom", I heavily recommend it

His magic system is complicated, and very hard to understand (I think i'll need a re-read). nonethelles, it is awessome. I wil write more oin this later, as I am in a hurry.

EDIT: I have now finished "Godsdoom" OMFG, what a book. Magic system is described very briefly, in bits and pieces, leaving one to think for themselves. Perumov leaves you wondering about just about everything that happened--I think I'm actually more confused then I was after finishing GoTM...

[wintermute]

Bakker's magic system is completely badass. The all-destroying but soul-damning aspect, as well as its intellectual nature is great. I liked that entire series. I like the grandeur of Erikson's system; drawing power from entire other worlds (that's what I assume warrens are) is very cool. However, I agree that it is a little ill-defined with what it can and can't do.

I'm reading Brandon Sanderson's Mistworld series now, and allomancy (internally burning metals for various powers) is awesome, creative, and logically set up.

Somebody (Abyss?) mentioned Abercrombie's cool mages. What is the first name? I just read The Blade Itself by Joe Abercrombie, which I liked, but I didn't see any major acts of magic or a definitive magical system, although magic is present. Basically, are we talking about the same Abercrombie?

Jordan's magic system was nifty and original, but seemed a bit too all-powerful. There was seemingly no limit to what it could do, and no way for the non-magically inclined to defend themselves. Both Bakker and Erikson have powerful magic, but also ways for people to defend themselves (otataral and chorae).

Goodkind's magic was cool at first until he got into war wizards, which basically seemed to be "hey, I'm not bound by any of these rules the previous five books have set up, because I'm a war wizard, so I do magic with my feelings!"

[Abyss]

wintermute;239389 said:

...Somebody (Abyss?) mentioned Abercrombie's cool mages. What is the first name? I just read The Blade Itself by Joe Abercrombie, which I liked, but I didn't see any major acts of magic or a definitive magical system, although magic is present. Basically, are we talking about the same Abercrombie?
...

We are. Keep reading.

Rowlings doesn't really put any concrete limits on her magic, beyond experience and know-how and raising the dead. I can accept that, because its a 'young persons' series and the reader isn't meant to be overthinking/analysing it the way we addicts might, tho i have no problem switching that side of my brain off and just enjoying a book.

From what i understand without having actually read any of the comics, Marvel Comics just hit a major reset button on Spiderman by way of magic and are currently in a 'war of words' with JMS over whether 'it's magic, we don't have to explain it' is an acceptable approach.

As for Goodkind, he makes my eyes bleed.


- Abyss, couldn't explain it if he tried...