[Skywalker]

Did anyone mention the magic system in Susannah Clarke's "Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell"? It was pretty intriguing too... I liked how it was all very scholarly in ambience.

And I loved her concept of most magicians in the world having become historians of magic instead of practitioners.

EDIT: And similarly charming was the Daemon based magic in His Dark Materials. The whole concept of Daemons is fascinating.

[paladin]

Abyss;212348 said:

Curiously, no one's raised GRRM's SoIaF system... possibly because we haven't really seen it beyond a handful of hints/events and the suggestion of some fundamental/elemental conflict between fire and ice. And dragons, of course, but even there we don't know much. Still, the hints are interesting and i've always liked how he doesn't overplay that element of the story.

- Abyss, all about the tease...

thats because magic in it is almost non existant.. the only real human magic we've seen comes from the stannis' red priest. and that isnt typical magic, its more conjuring, scrying, and divination. every other occurance of magic has been incidental or by non-human entities.

the one thing thats different about it that i like is that shadow is a part of light/fire, instead of "darkness", because shadows are created by light. when i first read that(i forget which book it was described in), i was like "wow, all this convention turned on its head already and he found another!"

[Obdigore]

My thoughts on some I have read:

So Farlands Runes are cool... I didnt read past the 3rd book, but apparently he threw more in....

I enjoy Erikson's a lot, but it gets... funny when strong powers hit other strong powers, and there isn't really a battle.

Mistborn - burning metals is pretty cool, as is what you can do with them.

Robert Jordan's magic system is ok... its hard and fast what can be done, and then suddenly 'zomg think about this' and then that person has the most powerfull 'spell' in the books.

I like Modesitt's, especially how he ties it into moral's and whatnot...

the Sunrunner stuff is cool, but iffy for me... and I think she started getting into 'starrunners' at the end, I don't remember.

I enjoyed the 'magic' system in the books with 'Sandtiger' and 'Del', the name of books and the series escapes me, but some of you know what I am thinking of. With the climates almost 'inhabiting' your blade... and apparently summoning stuff as well.

As noted by someone else - the magic system in the Gentlemen Bastards has not been seen enough for me to make a judgement on it.

I think my favorite magic system to date is in Glen Cooks new Instrimentalities series... with gods and wellsprings of power and whatnot.

[ShadowOwl]

Juliet McKenna's Tale of Einarinn series has several very interesting magic systems (including an ancient one being rediscovered) interwoven and integral to the plot -I really enjoyed that series a lot as the characters were well done too. I'd recommend it as a good read.

[cervantor]

Personally, some of my favorite magic systems is the allomancy/feruchemy from Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn books, the runelords system from David Farland's books, the Confessor magic from Goodkind's series and the stuff James Clemens has going on in his new Godslayer Chronicles...

[MecnunK]

What about Paoulini's pure elf language? I thought the concept was neat but have to go with Jordan's jedi-esque type magic..

[amphibian]

Well... y'see, Spawn has this meter up in the right corner that like keeps track of how much juice he's got left. Juice? Yeah, you gotta read the first few books. He was rezurreked by the devil and given a surten amount of power. He uses it, it's gone.

Sometimes he messes up some muggers up wit it and sometimes he heals himself or like cuts some bigass demon's head off with a thirty foot sword made of fire. Whoa. Yea. When the meter hits zero, that's when Spawn dies. I thought he wad dead already. He's alive again, but yea, he still dead.

[mxlm]

Quote

The David Weber WAR GOD'S OWN series had a fairly straightforward system based on life force... nice wizards use their own, bad wizards use someone else's, Gods can grant powers but the nature of the powers could vary based on the nature of the recipient. All very D&D but decently developed.

I'm guessing Weber played some Dark Sun in his time, eh?

[Dag]

I liked the charter magic in Garth Nix' Abhorsen trilogy. The idea of Charter Marks through which magic is being channelled, as opposed to the free-flowing and somewhat chaotic Free Magic, and the use of bells for summoning and binding, was simple, but very effective. I really enjoyed those books.

[murphy72]

It's been a while since I read these books, but in Emma Bull's War for the Oaks, the heroine's rock band defeats the evil sidhe by playing rock music. Really liked this book.

In Gael Baudino's Gossamer Axe, someone is rescued from the sidhe by the heroine playing heavy metal music. Didn't care for this book, but the idea of using heavy metal to drive off the sidhe tickled me.

[Werthead]

I didn't mention Song of Ice and Fire as GRRM very deliberately doesn't have a 'system' for magic. Magic is a mysterious and mystical force with no real set parameters, and the effects of using it can be slightly unpredictable. Similar to Tolkien.

OTOH, the way GRRM and Tolkien use magic knocks every other writer mentioned so far into a cocked hat because they actually use magic, as in a mysterious force which isn't really quantifiable. Everyone else just uses 'science which doesn't work in the real world', which isn't quite the same thing.

[Darkwatch]

Bakker's system is by far (to what I've read) the best out there imho. The sheer thought put into it and the logic it works on are incredible (and for reference, the Spire's form of magic is Anagogic).

In general though very rare is the system I haven't liked (though as mentioned Bakker takes the cake), they all have their pros and cons, though some aren't up to par.

Erikson's Warrens are a pretty innovative way to work magic, and I really like them. The multidimensional nature and the aspects of each merged with a plethora of different systems makes for a very rich diverse world. But the inconsitencies as to what's going on with them bug me a bit.

Wooding's Weaving is also very nice. Not real magic by the normal definition, but a very interesting and solid appraoch to exoteric supernatural powers. Well eleaborated and definined, yet with so much left unsaid that you don't feel it's sterile.

In terms of a more tragic and story driving sorcery, Kay wins with the Fionavar Tapestry. Having someone else as your source and the whole mythology built around it made it a very interesting system.

Irvine's Secret Art has a few inconsistencies that urk me in a similar way to Erikson (though in the new series I'm still at a loss to understand one major point, this severly irritates me). But the over all concept and use are well executed in general.

[Varunwe]

So far I like Jordan's magic system best. It's so nicely structured. Erikson's system is pretty good as well.

I've never liked incantations and silly wandwaving.

[Dagger]

Glen Cook's Black Company books have an interesting, if vague, magic system. I like the fact that the two under-powered wizards are consistently finding ways to win against the big guns.

Roger Zelazney's Amber series. The whole "One true world, all other are shadow" worked quite well. And only the royal family could move through the shadows limited it in a sensible way.

[polishgenius]

The system in James Lovegrove's "Worldstorm" was interesting - not for the basis of it (basically people are genetically elemental, in the traditional four elements sense, and powers manifest at about puberty into one of several powers available to each elemental group) but the way it's implemented with the entire society built around the differences between elements, and the capabilites each manifestation endows, is great. A book well worth reading.

The treatment of magic as a scientific system in Mieville I like too, though it's not really a magic system as defined in this topic.

[Shurque's biatch]

Dagger;212602 said:

Glen Cook's Black Company books have an interesting, if vague, magic system. I like the fact that the two under-powered wizards are consistently finding ways to win against the big guns.

Roger Zelazney's Amber series. The whole "One true world, all other are shadow" worked quite well. And only the royal family could move through the shadows limited it in a sensible way.

I agree with both. The whole 10 who were taken is cool, and the story behind Beaumans as he tries to trick his way in to the barrow is great reading.

The echoes of amber and the card system to Paran and the master of the deck made me relate the two right away. Plus the whole trump your brother with a dagger behind your back and the blood on the pattern plays very strongly into the dragon and ascendant games in Wu.

With good reason no one has mention Xanth, but the early books are pretty interesting/amusing in the magic concept.

Same could be said for the Myth series, but they are much farther up the scale than Xanth as far as entertainment.

The Belgariad is certainly in the "traditional schema" but Polgara walking out on the water to summon her demon while that other chick wades out and keeps sinking upto her knees was one of my favorite scenes as a kid.

I can't believe that Orson Scott Card's system in the Alvin Maker series hasn't been mentioned. The whole makering and heartfire and knackcraft ideas are very original.

And finally, the master of the 5 magics system by Lyndon Hardy is original in the way that the interaction and master are pursued. Not exactly fantastic reading, but unique.

[Tattooed Hand]

I like Jordan and Bakker's systems but they end up being dependent on binaries that really make me yawn (at best).

Jordan's is on the binary of gender and rests on so many ridiculous socially constructed stereotypes parading around as natural principles that I want to puke if I think about it too much.

Bakker's is more complex, but if you boil it down, it is somewhat similar in its simplicity - The Gnosis are the ancients, dependent on intellect. The Agagogic (?) school are derivative and inferior because in a sense they are degraded versions of that which they spurn. And the Pushke (?) are set in opposition to this proto-Western world in the sense that their sorcery is based on emotion. How freaking Orientalist can you get making the "East" of the book dependent on emotion and the "West" dependent on intellect?!

So while I am sometimes frustrated with the lack of specificity in Erikson's concepts of magic, I do appreciate that they are based on qualities and principles that are not gender or culture or ethnically based. Or at least not posed as being wedded to one of the above.

[Darkwatch]

@ Tattoed, the Anagogic is older than the Gnosis. The Gnosis is infact the derivative of the Non-Men Quya school which only came into being after the human vs Non-man wars, after the humans migrated into Earwa. So the Anagogic is not derived from the Gnosis, it is an original invention of humans, as it predates those migrations.
Gnostic and Anagogic sorcery functions the same way (utterals and inutterals), its simply the minds conceptual framework that makes one stronger than the other.

And yes the Psuke is based on passion, but we are informed that is only Kellhus' simplistic overview when explaining it quickly. A slightly more precise view was mentioned though.
*paraphrased* "The Gnosis speaks with the meaning (words) of God, while the Psuke Speaks with Voice (tone) of God."

[Aptorian]

Why hasn't any one mentioned J.K. Rowlands magicsystem? (Or have they?)

Although often childish, more funny or quirky than awesome, it is a refreshing take on magic. I especially liked the new direction it took in Halfblood Prince, where it all suddenly got a bit more serious and you get some hints at what the professionals can do. (haven't read the last book yet)

Now switching to some Goodkind bashing:

Goodkinds magicsystem is crap, not because it's that bad an idea, just because Goodkind as always can make fantacrap out of anything positive.

Balance is wiped into our face again and again in the books, yet subtractive magic can beat additive magic but not vise versa. How is this balance? How can the power to add and create not repulse or undo the subtractive? ITS CRAPNESS!!!

And Goodkind also managed to take a brilliant idea and make it into piss, the confessor power. Forget the Con Dar sillyness, just the plain ability to sap people with love, a brilliant idea but Goodkind doesn't have the thinkymeat to use it properly.

"Oooh no, the bad men are hunting us and raping and raping and raping us, but I can only sap people every second hour, boo hoo"

Why haven't the confessors made an army of the enthraled to act like a wall of meat around them? Why don't they just use a weekend and sap an entire prison? Why doesn't the Mother Con Dar women just blast the army of the bad with her lovetouch and turn them all over?...

Nooo, that would have made sense and made all the confessors plight pointless... silly me.

[Shurque's biatch]

Aptorian;213240 said:

Why hasn't any one mentioned J.K. Rowlands magicsystem? (Or have they?)

Although often childish, more funny or quirky than awesome, it is a refreshing take on magic. I especially liked the new direction it took in Halfblood Prince, where it all suddenly got a bit more serious and you get some hints at what the professionals can do. (haven't read the last book yet)

Now switching to some Goodkind bashing:

Goodkinds magicsystem is crap, not because it's that bad an idea, just because Goodkind as always can make fantacrap out of anything positive.

Balance is wiped into our face again and again in the books, yet subtractive magic can beat additive magic but not vise versa. How is this balance? How can the power to add and create not repulse or undo the subtractive? ITS CRAPNESS!!!

And Goodkind also managed to take a brilliant idea and make it into piss, the confessor power. Forget the Con Dar sillyness, just the plain ability to sap people with love, a brilliant idea but Goodkind doesn't have the thinkymeat to use it properly.

"Oooh no, the bad men are hunting us and raping and raping and raping us, but I can only sap people every second hour, boo hoo"

Why haven't the confessors made an army of the enthraled to act like a wall of meat around them? Why don't they just use a weekend and sap an entire prison? Why doesn't the Mother Con Dar women just blast the army of the bad with her lovetouch and turn them all over?...

Nooo, that would have made sense and made all the confessors plight pointless... silly me.

Good points, (rep) as far as the HP magic system, what always annoys me is that they are in a magic school and they never give any explanation as to why some magic is stronger or any of the details that would be important to a school kid (why can he beat me sometimes but not others? and why does this work when it is good for the plot?)

And not to totally derail the thread, but if Terry had only exploited the one good books worth of ideas he had by writing it in one book instead of 8 or whatever, maybe we would... ok, can't actually bring myself to say enjoy in a positive way with him, but whatever.