[Aptorian]

People keep doubting the finality of the death of Toc so lets go over it.

Toc asks Hood why he isn't claimed by the wolves and Hood remarks that his father "promised" his soul to Hood long ago.

But his eye is missing and Hood doesn't understand that either which leads to one of the most awesome quotes in the book "Damn wolves."

The insanity of dying and finding out you father has lost your soul in a game of dice or sold it for a cup of wine aside, do you think Toc is gone for good or could the wolves bring him back?

My first argument against us seeing Toc again would simply be, why bother? Toc isn't really that special, he had some visions and he had a damn good aim for a guy who has one eye, that's it. He's not an exceptional commander and not essential for any games. If the Wolves had any descency they'd let him get the peace he deserves.

My other argument would simply be that Hood has claimed the soul. Not only has he passed through the gate but Hood also had a contract on his soul from way before the wolves got their paws on him. Paran was only brought back from death by Oponn because he hadn't stepped through the gate yet. I don't think that the wolves can do a Brys Beddict on Toc and pull him out of the realm of Hood with the eye, Hood has his soul.

I think the whole eye thing was just a funny ending to Tocs life on wu.

[Flawed]

Agreed, i dont think we will see him again. it is a fun fact left up in the air for us to chew on.

If i was SE id put loads of fake avenues and suggestions in there to help create mystery and query.

He probably sits there thinking about how we are all going to discuss why the knife used in an attack was blue with runes on it and shaped like a newt or some jazz like that.

Id be like " See how the guys in the Malaz Forum like that!! "

But then again i am a nasty goit.

Oh and handsome. Im very handsome.

[Mr.Warren]

to be honest i enjoy the speculation more than anything, the question is more fun than the supposed answer

mind you i'm a philosophy student so i'm bound to say stuff like that

[Aptorian]

Mr.Warren;208313 said:

to be honest i enjoy the speculation more than anything, the question is more fun than the supposed answer

mind you i'm a philosophy student so i'm bound to say stuff like that

The question makes me feel the way DM does every time someone makes a "Hood wants a wife" post

[Mr.Warren]

Aptorian;208315 said:

The question makes me feel the way DM does every time someone makes a "Hood wants a wife" post

but he does doesn't he?
get his boney bone on?
only the lord of death can make the ladies feel so alive!

i just don't think we can be 100% certain of any characters full on death, SE is too tricky

[Tsundoku]

Toc is dead. He rocked, he got dealt some of the shittiest cards around, then he died heroically. End of "Toc" story.

Cheers,

La Sombra, end of fashion

[raest]

Any random speculation on what happened to Toc the Elder? I seem to remember in the GotM Dramatis Personae it lists Toc the Elder as "missing". Or was that GotM-ism or printing error?

[Skywalker]

raest;208324 said:

Any random speculation on what happened to Toc the Elder? I seem to remember in the GotM Dramatis Personae it lists Toc the Elder as "missing". Or was that GotM-ism or printing error?

He's probably spending his time in exile someplace, like Cartheron and Urko Crust were.

[Hyuga131]

Who's to say that Toc won't fill one of High House Death's empty seats, or even join Baudin as the Destraint or Shield Anvil of Hood?

That's the feel I got from Toc the Elder Promising Hood his son's soul. I think Toc is just going to jump from serving the Wolves to serving Hood.

[Zanth13]

If I remember right They specifically mention Toc the Elder being alive in RG. Toc the Younger found out from hood, or maybe it was some one else.
I figured SE mentioned him there because he would be appearing in later books.
IMO we will see Toc the elder, even if we dont see Toc the younger again.

[Abyss]

The Wolves and Hood are, at least in theory, allies in the fight against the CG. And it seems that both have a claim on Toc's soul.

So we COULD see him again. Baudin was hardly further along the road to ascension and he was shunted into the Knight o Death slot. Toc did more to attract attention from Gods, and there he is.

I don't particularly want to see Toc again. It would be nice if when a character dies, their death, especially one with as much impact, retains that impact and they stay dead. I didn't like Brys coming back. I saw the logic of Hedge's ressurection, but even so, the impact (pun intended) of him taking out an undead Kell Hunter with a cusser at zero range was lessened.

- Abyss, could then say he's not dead, he's just resting!

[Zanth13]

True, I like the guy but How many bodies can one man be given...


If he would come back yet again, then we would more then likely have to see him die yet again....


-Toc isnt the best at keeping himself breathing.

[Urb]

If only the wolves had devoured Toc's heart as well. THEN I would believe he's coming back. As it is I just think SE was having some fun with Hood

[Abyss]

This could become abit of a running joke if overdone...


The 14th Army: We're surrounded! We're being killed a lot!!! WE'RE DOOMED!!!

Toc the Alive: Don't worry fellow Malazans, i'm here to save you!!! *shoots one arrow that takes out an entire civilization of berserker K'Chain Che'malle K'ell Hunter cyborg ninja d'ivers.*

The 14th: We're SAVED!!!

Toc: *trips on a wandering chicken and stabs himself thru the heart with an arrow*

Fiddler: Oh Hood's left nut on toast, they killed Toc!

Hedge: THOSE BASTARDS!!!

Hood: So, welcome back. How was your trip?

Toc the Dead: Fatal. Hey, why are my big toes missing?

Hood: Damn Wolves.


- Abyss, *cymbal crash*

[Mr.Warren]

personally i'd like to see a big three headed toc, trull and beak monster comming up to crap in the crippled gods brazier

Abyss, SE shoud take notes!

[Dag]

Abyss;208389 said:

I don't particularly want to see Toc again. It would be nice if when a character dies, their death, especially one with as much impact, retains that impact and they stay dead. I didn't like Brys coming back. I saw the logic of Hedge's ressurection, but even so, the impact (pun intended) of him taking out an undead Kell Hunter with a cusser at zero range was lessened.

I agree - "The Malazan book of the Fallen" turning into "The Malazan book of the Resurrected" would be kind of awkward twist in the whole concept.

Still, personally, I would have prefered it if Toc had stayed alive. I don't think that his death had a huge impact on the story (especially considering the open possibility of his miraculous return), but it sure had a hell of an impact on my tear glands.

[Gem Windcaster]

Would it be too long of a stretch to think Toc will be an undead? I just can't get the idea out of my head. It kinda completes Toc's journey in bodies...speculation, speculation...

[Zanth13]

Gem Windcaster;208839 said:

Would it be too long of a stretch to think Toc will be an undead? I just can't get the idea out of my head. It kinda completes Toc's journey in bodies...speculation, speculation...

mmm interesting...kinda of comletes the whole Tool, Toc Cirlce... one gains his life after being undead, and one living becomes undead.

T'lan AnastertErrantToc.