[fan_83]

or it could be because the mage decided to leak out his power instead of controlling it..

its like dragnipur.. it keeps on emitting power, while rake can control his to not show off..

the scene in gotm could be because tay is leakin power to keep tater and calot in control and to show whose boss..

thats my 2 cents

[Veilside]

I wish people would stop reffering to "elements" in the rock paper scissors pokemon sense :|

More seriously, it makes sense to me that some warrens are more suited to battle against another warren due to the effects one can create through that warren. Some warrens also appear to be more offensive/defensive in nature.
I think what abyss mentions above makes sense. Aral gamelon being linked to Hood and Tellan being the fire of life (or something similar) If life and death aren't opposed then I can't think what else could be.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Abyss;203345 said:

Meanas, Rashan and Thyr have all been ref'd as related, amd Mokra seems to link to them as well. Kuralds Galain and Thyrllan seem like they should logicall be opposed, but Emulahn seems to derive from the interaction of both. Plus while Meanas has a physical space and Rashan seems to as well, we've never seen a ref to Thyr having one, and it seemed clear from MT that Mokra doesn't.

Hmm. I think Tattersail was travelling in Thyr when she was forced out by Tool's null-field and ran into Bellurdan. It may not have been Thyr, but what other warren could she have used to travel?

Bellurdan's comment to Tattersail backs this up:

GotM, on UK Trade, p.241, said:

'your Thyr Warren cannot function over water'

[Abyss]

Okay, assuming it's not a GotMIsm, that makes sense - and nice quotecatch.
(Tho, speaking in an elemental sense, why shouldn't 'light' work over water? - Kulp accessed Meanas while he was on the boat with Gesler and co to sheild then from the crazy flying bleeding mage guy, and Apsalar travelled through a lake via Shadow in TB)

Meanas and Rashan as stray chunks of shattered KE, make sense as physical spaces. No reason Thyr shouldn't, as a stray chunk of 'light' that used to be part of elder 'shadow'. Plus the link between KT, Tellan, etc. might lend to a trasitory 'space' that's human aspected, the way Kurald Liosan seems to be a transition between the Kuralds and SD.

- Abyss, 'likes' to use 'quotes' when referring to 'ephemeral' 'concepts'.

[Dolorous Menhir]

I don't know why Thyr wouldn't work over water. If it was a fire warren, you could make sense of it, but not for the human warren of light. Tattersail has been the only Thyr user in the books though, right? So we don't have any other experience to compare Bellurdan's comment to.

[Abyss]

In TB, Pust identifies himself as a Thyr user along with a few other warrens, iirc.

- Abyss, has a thyry...

[wintermute]

It's possible that Thyr doesn't work over water (assuming it's not a GotMism) simply because there are no bodies of water in Thyr (which would be plausible, I imagine a warren of light would be pretty hot, so you might just get steam). In DG Kulp couldn't manage to open a portal to Meanas because they were on water and there was no water in Meanas. Sure, eventually he did it, but I got the sense he was doing some out-there stuff, and also, considering how badly things went when he did open the portal, there would be a pretty strong disincentive for a mage of Thyr to try something similar even if he could.

[Aptorian]

I think it's Udinaas or someone like that that states that with out fire there's no light or something like that, meaning they are joined.

Fire doesn't like water, so thyr doesn't like water?... I don't know, GotM needs a running authors commentary.

[Lisheo]

A lot of the warrens are linked, but in the end, if were going for ppl all with the same capabilites:
Theoretically, Powerwise
Young Warrens> Elder Warrens> Holds

But in reality
Holds> Young Warrens> Elder Warrens> Karsa

[Dancer+]

In my opinion I think the reason Tattersail got her headache whilst being near Hairlock is the way he interracts with his own warren. Hairlock always seemed to possess a tense and intense sort of hold over his warren and his actions, which makes me jump to the conclusion he almost emnates a scent which could act as an intensifier causing the migranes. It would seem like a Hairlock thing to do to create these migranes.

Most mages seem to hold their warrens back, and seem less involved, except at the points they unleash or utilise them. It just seems more controlled than Hairlock's approach. I do agree that power levels are involved, but I think the approach and methods are critical.

[Lisheo]

Thats true. Quick Ben is able to keep his warren concealed, whereas Hairlock wasnt. Its about methods, eg Beak visualising his candles.

[Locke Reaper]

another thing about hairlock that puts him in a different catagory is the fact that he went swimming in chaos numerous time. this would definately affect his hold over his warren. I would even go so far as to say that he was bleeding power subconciously.

if the whole mage vs. mage debate is valid then i sure hope that Rake was preoccupied when facing tascy otherwise he has sunk severely in my estimation. I mean no mere mortal can have more skill than a ascendent of hundreds of thousands of years. that just seems a bit sad...

[Lisheo]

He was trying to protect the Moon tho, he says it himself. The helpless members of his race were in there: Andii children and the elderly.

[Dancer+]

I think Rake is more powerful than Tayschrenn, Rake was trying to defend Moon Spawn and the inhabitants. I don't think their battle was in any way one-to-one, Rake was shooting out sorcery indiscriminately and retreated to save others. Rake against Tayschrenn I believe would end up unpredictably however. On a similar but unrelated note, I couldn't see Rake being able to fend off both Tay and QB with both fully unleashing.

I'd be interested to see how Tayschrenn fares in the rest of the series.

'I would even go so far as to say that he was bleeding power subconciously.'

exactly. Power that stinks heavily and almost corrupts the air from the perspective of mages.

[Dolorous Menhir]

The Cult of Dessembrae;203974 said:

In my opinion I think the reason Tattersail got her headache whilst being near Hairlock...

I just read that passage again, and although it's not spelled out and could refer to Hairlock, I'm pretty sure Tayschrenn was the source of the headache.

[Lisheo]

Ah. thats true. It occurs near near them both, so either could be the cause, but I would say Tays is the most likely culprit. Hairlock wasn't so big into Chaos at that point, so he was probably much weaker than Tays.

[panic]

Locke Reaper;204014 said:

another thing about hairlock that puts him in a different catagory is the fact that he went swimming in chaos numerous time. this would definately affect his hold over his warren. I would even go so far as to say that he was bleeding power subconciously.

if the whole mage vs. mage debate is valid then i sure hope that Rake was preoccupied when facing tascy otherwise he has sunk severely in my estimation. I mean no mere mortal can have more skill than a ascendent of hundreds of thousands of years. that just seems a bit sad...

Rake said that he was trying to just divert Tays' attacks and to protect who he could.

[Silencer]

The Cult of Dessembrae;204032 said:

On a similar but unrelated note, I couldn't see Rake being able to fend off both Tay and QB with both fully unleashing.
I

This is the RG forum right? Well, after the (RG SPOILER)

Spoiler

QB owning Menandore and co and Silchas Ruin scene (although it does note somewhere, and I think it was clip or someone like that, that SR is not his brother) I think QB could beat Anomander single handedly with magic, although it wouldn't be easy...

On topic: Warren's don't seem to trump other warrens - I think Tattersails 'anathema' thing was a GOTMism - it all depends on the power and/skill (read good ideas) of the caster.

[Curdle]

Hey there!

Interesting thread. I would agree with most people that the power of the warren in question is more dependent on the mage who is wielding it, but I happened to be rereading RG and remembered a relevant line -

When Shadowthrone makes an illusion of the shattered throne (long past worrying about spoilers, right?) he says something along the lines of:
"Lesser warrens, manipulated by the hands of a God." (reffering to Meneas and....something else that he used to weave the illusion. Rashan mayhap.) Perhaps the warrens are ranked in some way, at least by the residents of the continents. As in some are more universally useful than others...

All warrens are powerful in their own way, but I was partial to Meneas after DG when Kulp used it to fool reality itself and fashion a portal outa Thyr (I think). Talk about potential for power. Granted, he had ascendant help, Eleint no less, but still...

[Cude]

Warren v Warren ok here goes
mage1:casts fireball destroys mage2
mage2: laughs as his shadow cast image is destroyed , opens hole in earth under mage1 who falls to his death
mage1: laughs as he floats into the air above hole, casts envelope of darkness around mage2 suffocating him to death
mage2:laughs as he surfs his way out of the envelope of darkness on a wave of water , casts flash of light that burns through mage1 eyes into his brain killing him
mage1:laughs as he puts on his raybans deflecting flash of light ( ok not exactly warren produced but essential nontheless )
Karsa steps out from behind building , chops both mages in half , doesnt laugh .

Point is it depends how you use the warren that counts i suppose but in the end Karsa always wins