[Aptorian]

Cude;204683 said:

Warren v Warren ok here goes
mage1:casts fireball destroys mage2
mage2: laughs as his shadow cast image is destroyed , opens hole in earth under mage1 who falls to his death
mage1: laughs as he floats into the air above hole, casts envelope of darkness around mage2 suffocating him to death
mage2:laughs as he surfs his way out of the envelope of darkness on a wave of water , casts flash of light that burns through mage1 eyes into his brain killing him
mage1:laughs as he puts on his raybans deflecting flash of light ( ok not exactly warren produced but essential nontheless )
Karsa steps out from behind building , chops both mages in half , doesnt laugh .

Point is it depends how you use the warren that counts i suppose but in the end Karsa always wins

Actually that sounds more like Quicks way of fighting, the other mages we've seen fighting full on... arguably no real situations than GotM and MT, are pure force on force, basically just open up and see who wins.

I think we're supposed to realise that all your experience might not help you in a real fight, you've got a split second to blast the other guy before you are yourself blasted to ash.

It's only quick who commands enough warrens and dastardly cunning to do all the dogtricks you describe. A normal ruse mage will only be able to throw water, water and... rain. That and I suspect everysingle mage can open their warren and let out pure power to forceblast their opponent.

[Lisheo]

In the words of Gothos to Mael, refering to Ruse "And what would be your answer, Mael? Flood... Or flood?"

[wintermute]

I wonder if a user of Denul could let out a power blast. It seems against the nature of the warren, but then, everything else seems to be able to do it, and it would suck for Denul if it was left out.

I think Quick Ben and Tayschrenn vs. Rake would involve Rake blocking any magical attacks, and moving in for the kill with his sword. He does seem to like it a lot, despite being able to blast things into non-existence from a mile away (the latter seems much easier)

Ruse is a hard warren to master, it said somewhere, but I think it has more than just floods. Think about those Jistal pressure traps in the end of BH. Gothos' comment about the floods probably reflected a certain rut in Mael's thinking rather than limits on the warren itself.

[Lisheo]

Denul could probably unknit the flesh from someones bones or something. A wielder of High Denul would probably be one of the most powerful mages if it was put to use for attacking.
Hmmm thats true... So, so far all we know Ruse can do is create pockets of pressure (as High Ruse), burst ppl, and flood stuff... fun lol!

[Pallol One Eye]

Dolorous Menhir;203182 said:

For example, Karsa's "Toblakai warren" seems to beat everything. But the picture is not as simple as that - it's like an impregnable personal defence. It's not capable of producing magic waves, fireballs, lightning bolts, as true magic users rely on. It's not offensive in nature.

Was re-reading GOTM, and noticed that Tool comments to Lorn on the conflagration of magic in which Tattersail and Bellurdan were incinerated, that one of the warrens used was Toblokai, amonst others (around page 300-315 or so in US MM edition, at work and can't confirm page).

I just wondering about TTT magic. Bellurdan was TTT and a high mage. Karsa's magic, as noted by DM, appears to be defensive. How would a TTT high Mage's magic/warren be different. Assuming its a racial warren like Jaghut, it may have offensive qualities beyond what Karsa can achieve. Perhap's the mage ability gives access to additional TTT magic beyond that inherent in "normal", none mage TTT.

Hope this has not been addressed elsewhere, couldn't find anything in a search.

[Abyss]

Lisheo;205188 said:

In the words of Gothos to Mael, refering to Ruse "And what would be your answer, Mael? Flood... Or flood?"

Ebron, a squad mage, used Ruse to bind Karsa in HoC - he said it was a thing originally made for dhenrabi.

Also in HoC, the slavemaster may have used Ruse to summon a big frikkin shark.

In TB, there was ref to all kinds of nasty High Ruse trapspell thingies drifting around Malaz City, tho we never saw one sprung.


As for denul, we've only seen it used for healing. That can't really be taken as determinative one way or the other.

Oh, and in any warren v warren fight, Wolverine will always win.

- Abyss,

[Mael]

Quote

if the whole mage vs. mage debate is valid then i sure hope that Rake was preoccupied when facing tascy otherwise he has sunk severely in my estimation. I mean no mere mortal can have more skill than a ascendent of hundreds of thousands of years. that just seems a bit sad...

I think you are greatly underestimating Tayschrenn's power

Rake specifically mentioned that his intent was to make the assault on Pale too costly for Tayschrenn to continue and was shocked at the fact that Tayschrenn didn't care about the damage he inflicted to his own army in the process.

Rake was also forced to destroy the Demon summoned by Tayschrenn to kill nightchill during the assault but Tayschrenn did manage to summon the thing as well as take out other members of the mage cadres during the battle aswell.

Tayschrenn is not someone to be taken lightly and is someone I believe holds the position "Shapefinder" in the Fulcra (unaligned) hold making him far more formidable then we currently know.

[Abyss]

Mael;205403 said:

...Tayschrenn is not someone to be taken lightly and is someone I believe holds the position "Shapefinder" in the Fulcra (unaligned) hold making him far more formidable then we currently know.

'Shapefinder' was said to be the general 'shapeshifter/soletaken/d'ivers' tile in the fulcra.

Tayshrenn is a former High Priest of Drek who took refuge with Kellanved and subsequently rose to the rank of High Mage. It's certainly suggested he's more than he seems and has other concerns in the background, but that's purely speculative with a slight dose of NoKism.

How did you link those two?

- Abyss, curious.

[Mael]

Abyss;205410 said:

'Shapefinder' was said to be the general 'shapeshifter/soletaken/d'ivers' tile in the fulcra.

Tayshrenn is a former High Priest of Drek who took refuge with Kellanved and subsequently rose to the rank of High Mage. It's certainly suggested he's more than he seems and has other concerns in the background, but that's purely speculative with a slight dose of NoKism.

How did you link those two?

- Abyss, curious.

In MoI Tayschrenn is referred to as a Chimera by Silverfox (In the literal sense, when he is in the form or Artanthos the standard bearer. Hes also uses the name Artan in NoK). This is the only time the word Chimera is used in all of the books up until Featherwitch is casting tiles in MT at which point she states that "Shapefinder has become a chimera in truth" when she's doing the whole speaking in trance thing while listing the holds.

I know its a bit of as stretch but since these are the only 2 instances the words have come up and the fact that Tayschrenn has a habit of changing his form from time to time, I don't believe that it is an impossible connection. The fact that the Tile is Unaligned and the term Fulcra when used in reference to a person can mean "An agent through which vital powers are exercised." also fit well with Tayschrenn's character so far.

[ch'arlz]

GardenGnome;203224 said:

The whole thing with mages getting headaches from each other was dropped after GotM, so I wouldn't read too much into it...

In Midnight Tides, Corlo gets a headache as the Crimson Guardsmen are approaching Brous, where a mage is loosening the sorcerous binds holding the Forkrul Assail. (p. 502 us tpb) And again when Seren is inadvertently using Mockra while saying goodbye to the Crimson Guardsmen. (p. 533 us tpb)

-ch'arlz

[Mr.Warren]

It could be that mages give each other migraines when they aren't being nice, a sort of 'dimming that candle' might be polite or covert? and giving them a head ache might be a way of secretly saying 'don't start anything buddy'

but yes its a thing that seems most strange.

[Locke Reaper]

@ Mael:

Couldn't the shapefinder be refering to the eres, seeing as she use to be with the bonehunters but no one knows who or what she would be now after t'amber was killed. She still travels with bottle in his dreams.

[Abyss]

I'm pretty sure 'shapefinder' is a ref to shapeshifters, ie soletaken and d'ivers. They were around back in the FE, and ultimately the outcome of its downfall.

- Abyss, seatshifter.

[Lyonheart]

about the Ruse Warren.... how about just boiling a persons blood? Or filling someones lungs; or cooking the enitire body ( i'ts mostly made of water) ; does Ruse only produce water or can it affect the state it is in? as in evaporate, boil, condense etc.. ?

[Mentalist]

 Dolorous Menhir, on 03 August 2007 - 04:38 PM, said:

I don't know why Thyr wouldn't work over water. If it was a fire warren, you could make sense of it, but not for the human warren of light. Tattersail has been the only Thyr user in the books though, right? So we don't have any other experience to compare Bellurdan's comment to.

Corinn in NoK was a user of Thyr and she used the warren to get around....

[vagabond]

 ch, on 02 September 2007 - 05:04 PM, said:

QUOTE (GardenGnome;203224)The whole thing with mages getting headaches from each other was dropped after GotM, so I wouldn't read too much into it...

In Midnight Tides, Corlo gets a headache as the Crimson Guardsmen are approaching Brous, where a mage is loosening the sorcerous binds holding the Forkrul Assail. (p. 502 us tpb) And again when Seren is inadvertently using Mockra while saying goodbye to the Crimson Guardsmen. (p. 533 us tpb)

-ch'arlz

i'm fairly certain it's a mage thing, not a warren thing.
QB can use multiple warrens at once, so if there was a reaction he'd be the first to know.

[Roldom]

but he can only fuse seven warrens at a time, maybe thats because they do effect each other and he can only weld similar warrens, or warrens with positive effects together and if he tried to put the wrong warren in the melding it would fail

the more different warrens, the more diverse characteristics, and the more chance of clashes between them

[Kenussen]

 lasombra, on 02 August 2007 - 05:27 PM, said:

"They entered the command tent. She sensed immediately the presence of power, what Calot called smell. It made his eyes water. It gave her a migraine headache, This particular emanation was a power she knew well, and it was anathema to her own.

- Tattersail nears Tayschrenn. Her warren is Thyr (light), his is Telas (fire). Seems unlikely one would be anathema to the other? (GotM, UK mmpb p.63)


hmmm suggests that certain warrens have "effects" on others?

I thought that she was referring to Hairlock, as in his power being anathema to hers so Rashan is anathema to Thyr which would make more sense because Thyr comes from Kurald Thyrllan, which itself comes from Tellann and Telas is the child of Tellann so Thyr and Telas should be closely linked.

[Kenussen]

 Pallol One Eye, on 20 August 2007 - 04:05 PM, said:

<!--QuoteBegin-Dolorous Menhir;203182+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dolorous Menhir;203182)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For example, Karsa's "Toblakai warren" seems to beat everything. But the picture is not as simple as that - it's like an impregnable personal defence. It's not capable of producing magic waves, fireballs, lightning bolts, as true magic users rely on. It's not offensive in nature.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Was re-reading GOTM, and noticed that Tool comments to Lorn on the conflagration of magic in which Tattersail and Bellurdan were incinerated, that one of the warrens used was Toblokai, amonst others (around page 300-315 or so in US MM edition, at work and can't confirm page).

I just wondering about TTT magic. Bellurdan was TTT and a high mage. Karsa's magic, as noted by DM, appears to be defensive. How would a TTT high Mage's magic/warren be different. Assuming its a racial warren like Jaghut, it may have offensive qualities beyond what Karsa can achieve. Perhap's the mage ability gives access to additional TTT magic beyond that inherent in "normal", none mage TTT.

Hope this has not been addressed elsewhere, couldn't find anything in a search.

As far as we know, Theloman Toblakai warrens are personal warrens and therefore are different for each TT so there isn't a set racial warren. I think their warren basically does what they want it to. Not too sure though seeing as we never really see it in action.