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MMMM! True and so is Nightchill. But thats Baruks view and its been proved wrong before.
Soletaken Laws
#42
Lisheo 
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Posted 08 August 2007 - 02:38 PM
Hmm yeah. Weve got no proof about Krul being Draconic...
“People have wanted to narrate since first we banged rocks together & wondered about fire. There’ll be tellings as long as there are any of us here, until the stars disappear one by one like turned-out lights.”
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#44
Lisheo
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Posted 08 August 2007 - 03:13 PM
Ah ha, thank you Grubb, youve just solved that problem!
“People have wanted to narrate since first we banged rocks together & wondered about fire. There’ll be tellings as long as there are any of us here, until the stars disappear one by one like turned-out lights.”
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#45
Flawed
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Posted 08 August 2007 - 03:16 PM
The whole thing about Soletakens and Divers is one of the most interesting parts for me in the books.
I think originally they were created somehow through error or with intent and that the Imass had something to do with it.
As all Bonecasters are Soultaken then perhaps this lends some form of suggestion that this is where it all originally came from.
Perhaps the first Bonecasters in experimenting with their more earthly magic sought to either emulate certain creatures or use the different senses and such as an aid to their whole clan wandering life style. Sight, Smell etc.
Or it could be even deeper, progressively from the Eresal where they used the deep old magic of life sparks like Bottle and managed to somehow emulate and become one, as a Soletaken with their favourite of more personality matching beast.
What's more intriguing at later times the whole soultaken part must of run away from the bonecasters ( if we follow this trail of thought ) and spread throughout the clans or populace leading down into bloodlines becoming a trait such as blue eyes but in this case ." OOH My son can turn into a Bat "
and so it becomes something within the later generation of imass and then humans to what it is today. it has diseased creating the belief now that all soletaken are fairly barmy but it was still able to be emulated such as with the first empires ritual. true it went a bit wrong but it was possible.
and then with Krul. Where did he get that powder shaped as a bird from to change Buke? and if Buke was to then eat a statue given from Krul of a bear would he be able to change into both?
There are so many holes in the whole thing and i cant help but be interested in it all. The thought of being able to change into an animal of my choice is fairly cool.
Knowing my luck ill be standing in a desert and finally learn how to change and turn into a Goldfish.
" Great! " i mouth " Typical " while slowly cooking on the floor flopping this way and that.
Stupid Soletaken! Hmmph!
I think originally they were created somehow through error or with intent and that the Imass had something to do with it.
As all Bonecasters are Soultaken then perhaps this lends some form of suggestion that this is where it all originally came from.
Perhaps the first Bonecasters in experimenting with their more earthly magic sought to either emulate certain creatures or use the different senses and such as an aid to their whole clan wandering life style. Sight, Smell etc.
Or it could be even deeper, progressively from the Eresal where they used the deep old magic of life sparks like Bottle and managed to somehow emulate and become one, as a Soletaken with their favourite of more personality matching beast.
What's more intriguing at later times the whole soultaken part must of run away from the bonecasters ( if we follow this trail of thought ) and spread throughout the clans or populace leading down into bloodlines becoming a trait such as blue eyes but in this case ." OOH My son can turn into a Bat "
and so it becomes something within the later generation of imass and then humans to what it is today. it has diseased creating the belief now that all soletaken are fairly barmy but it was still able to be emulated such as with the first empires ritual. true it went a bit wrong but it was possible.
and then with Krul. Where did he get that powder shaped as a bird from to change Buke? and if Buke was to then eat a statue given from Krul of a bear would he be able to change into both?
There are so many holes in the whole thing and i cant help but be interested in it all. The thought of being able to change into an animal of my choice is fairly cool.
Knowing my luck ill be standing in a desert and finally learn how to change and turn into a Goldfish.
" Great! " i mouth " Typical " while slowly cooking on the floor flopping this way and that.
Stupid Soletaken! Hmmph!
"I think i was a bad person before. Before this time. I do not try to be good now but i am not bad. Perhaps if i try harder i may get a better hand dealt next time? But surely that makes it pointless? Perhaps i am good. Just good at being pointless. But that would make me bad. Bad at having a point. Ah…. I see now. I was nothing before, I am nothing now. I am bad purely because im pointless. "
EQ 10
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#46
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 08 August 2007 - 06:23 PM
Lancelot;203970 said:
K'rul is Draconian????? Wheres that stated?
Most of the Elder Gods seem to be, so it's not an outrageous claim. It's not stated anywhere that I can remember though.
#47
Illuyankas
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Posted 08 August 2007 - 06:35 PM
He's on the list of dragons that chained the otataral dragon to that rift in the Imperial Warren, along with Draconus. So they're both dragons.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
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Posted 08 August 2007 - 07:03 PM
kerry;203490 said:
Well, I think this may prove it is somewhat unreliable, because in RG it definitely says Phaed saw her mother's head on the Silanda, so it can't be Envy. Although Envy could possibly be Nimander's mother.
Can you find me a page reference for that please? - that Phaed saw her mother's head on the Silanda.
The understanding had been that Rake and Envy were the parents of Nimander.. and that Envy and Nimander were the parents of Phaed.. but as been said before it could be unreliable. I'll look for the source of that and quote it when I find it.
#49
Mael
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Posted 08 August 2007 - 08:49 PM
Hetan;204077 said:
Can you find me a page reference for that please? - that Phaed saw her mother's head on the Silanda.
The understanding had been that Rake and Envy were the parents of Nimander.. and that Envy and Nimander were the parents of Phaed.. but as been said before it could be unreliable. I'll look for the source of that and quote it when I find it.
The understanding had been that Rake and Envy were the parents of Nimander.. and that Envy and Nimander were the parents of Phaed.. but as been said before it could be unreliable. I'll look for the source of that and quote it when I find it.
It is right before Phaed's attempt on sandilath's life. Nimander is remembering the event while he follows her into the bedroom. He remembers about how ALL of thier parents left on the Silanda and how they all knew what happened to thier parents but only Phaed actually looked below the sheet covering the heads on the deck to see her mothers face.
Thier parents intent was to find Rake and to demand answers as to why they had been abandoned. Nimander and the rest of the Andii from Drift Avalii are most likely Rake's grandchildren with thier parents being his actual offspring. This is all assuming that the Andii aren't refering to him as thier Father in some quasi-religious sense like the Liosen refer to Father light or as a priest refers to his followers as his children which is more then possible givin Udinass' theories on the subject.
Lisheo;204012 said:
Hmm yeah. Weve got no proof about Krul being Draconic...
In MOI when Lady Envy is conversing with K'rul he assaults her with a memory of his creation of the warrens. It describes the 2 halves of his heart...Kurald Galain and Starvald Demilain. As was said before he's listed as Path Shaper in the dragon hold
#50
ShadowOwl
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Posted 08 August 2007 - 10:48 PM
Hetan;204077 said:
Can you find me a page reference for that please? - that Phaed saw her mother's head on the Silanda.
The understanding had been that Rake and Envy were the parents of Nimander.. and that Envy and Nimander were the parents of Phaed.. but as been said before it could be unreliable. I'll look for the source of that and quote it when I find it.
The understanding had been that Rake and Envy were the parents of Nimander.. and that Envy and Nimander were the parents of Phaed.. but as been said before it could be unreliable. I'll look for the source of that and quote it when I find it.
Top of page 657 hard cover UK edition "Save one murderous child whose mother's head stares at canvas on a pitching deck. The one child who went to see that for herself."
"Yes, the owl was deliberate in each and every instance, and yes, it was intended to work on multiple levels." (from SE's Dec 09 Q&A)
#51
Aptorian
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Posted 09 August 2007 - 10:30 AM
Lancelot;203970 said:
K'rul is Draconian????? Wheres that stated?
About that draconean tree. As Flawed mentions it says so in the Draconean familytree.
But Killy, Mael and Rake's two stupid kids Nimander and phaed are also on the tree. None of them seem to have eleint blood... Killy certainly can't fly.
#52
Flawed
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Posted 09 August 2007 - 10:48 AM
Perhaps its all to do with the power or simple lineage with Draconian's. ( Is this a word? )
Perhaps were all looking far too deeply into it. Some kids look more like their dad, some look more like their mum. Some.... look like the milkman, but we wont go into that here.
I think that its just a simple case of the strongest gene or even who the child takes after. Over time specific Genes will dilute or be relaced by more dominant things like huge eyebrows or ear lugs that you could swing on for example.
Perhaps were looking into it with too much depth. I'm sure if i look far enough back in my family tree ill find a big tall handsome dude with massive muscles, extremely intelligent and has a way with the laaaaayyyyydddiiies.
Cos its sure as hell isn't me!
Hmmph!
Stupid genes!
Perhaps were all looking far too deeply into it. Some kids look more like their dad, some look more like their mum. Some.... look like the milkman, but we wont go into that here.
I think that its just a simple case of the strongest gene or even who the child takes after. Over time specific Genes will dilute or be relaced by more dominant things like huge eyebrows or ear lugs that you could swing on for example.
Perhaps were looking into it with too much depth. I'm sure if i look far enough back in my family tree ill find a big tall handsome dude with massive muscles, extremely intelligent and has a way with the laaaaayyyyydddiiies.
Cos its sure as hell isn't me!
Hmmph!
Stupid genes!
"I think i was a bad person before. Before this time. I do not try to be good now but i am not bad. Perhaps if i try harder i may get a better hand dealt next time? But surely that makes it pointless? Perhaps i am good. Just good at being pointless. But that would make me bad. Bad at having a point. Ah…. I see now. I was nothing before, I am nothing now. I am bad purely because im pointless. "
EQ 10
EQ 10
#53
ShadowOwl
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 11:13 PM
Onrack says, after seeing Rud Elalle and Menandore, that they share blood, and "if there is Eleint blood in the mother, then so too in the son." Trull asks, "Soletaken?" and Onrack say "Yes".
So that's where the idea that soletaken comes thru the mother comes from.
So that's where the idea that soletaken comes thru the mother comes from.
"Yes, the owl was deliberate in each and every instance, and yes, it was intended to work on multiple levels." (from SE's Dec 09 Q&A)
#55
Abyss
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Posted 16 August 2007 - 01:51 PM
Chaining the ottie dragon was ref'd by Rud in MT.
To complicate things further, when Iccy and Mappo find the dead dragon in the Skykeep in TB, Iccy suggests something strange would happen to whomever drank the blood... iirc, he doesn't specifically say anyone was going soletaken, but it seems implied.
Otoh, Kila has apparently hit a LOT of dragons so hard they bled all over her, and she doesn't seem to be draconic.
- Abyss, finds this all bloody confusing...
To complicate things further, when Iccy and Mappo find the dead dragon in the Skykeep in TB, Iccy suggests something strange would happen to whomever drank the blood... iirc, he doesn't specifically say anyone was going soletaken, but it seems implied.
Otoh, Kila has apparently hit a LOT of dragons so hard they bled all over her, and she doesn't seem to be draconic.
- Abyss, finds this all bloody confusing...
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#56
ShadowOwl
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Posted 16 August 2007 - 05:10 PM
Pearl and Lostara found the "ottie" dragon when they were in the imperial warren, sliding down holes. Pearl said something about they were in a pocket warren as the stars were not from their world and there were six sets of big dragon footprints. Dragons are everywhere it seems?
"Yes, the owl was deliberate in each and every instance, and yes, it was intended to work on multiple levels." (from SE's Dec 09 Q&A)
#57
Flawed
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Posted 16 August 2007 - 05:14 PM
kerry;204971 said:
Pearl and Lostara found the "ottie" dragon when they were in the imperial warren, sliding down holes. Pearl said something about they were in a pocket warren as the stars were not from their world and there were six sets of big dragon footprints. Dragons are everywhere it seems?
I know! Buggers keep shatting on my car!
"I think i was a bad person before. Before this time. I do not try to be good now but i am not bad. Perhaps if i try harder i may get a better hand dealt next time? But surely that makes it pointless? Perhaps i am good. Just good at being pointless. But that would make me bad. Bad at having a point. Ah…. I see now. I was nothing before, I am nothing now. I am bad purely because im pointless. "
EQ 10
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#58
Abyss
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Posted 16 August 2007 - 07:15 PM
Y'know... Mael, Kila and Gothos were all standing around in the prologue with a perfectly fresh dead dragon, and not one of them started breaking out the shaker and olives for a little dragontini.
Obviously none of them NEEDED the power-up, but still...
- Abyss, assumes soletaken dragon blood doesn't do that 'make a wall' thing...
Obviously none of them NEEDED the power-up, but still...
- Abyss, assumes soletaken dragon blood doesn't do that 'make a wall' thing...
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#59
Boulder
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Posted 30 August 2007 - 12:44 AM
It is a bit disguisting really, isn't it?! If humans started to drink each others' blood and claim it gave them special powers, we'd just write them off as cannibals. On the other hand, there are other instances of this, such as the Women of the Dead Seed who become chaotic sorceresses...
My convoluted point is that just as those women probably got their powers due to the Seers/CGs intervention, perhaps the blood-drinking is also a diversion from the real power-gaining stuff. Or not, whatever.
My convoluted point is that just as those women probably got their powers due to the Seers/CGs intervention, perhaps the blood-drinking is also a diversion from the real power-gaining stuff. Or not, whatever.
