[mmdw45]

polishgenius;186432 said:

Beak, likeable as the little guy was, just wanders about a bit, building his magical reputation with us, then goes all uber and dies.

I dunno about the "uber" bit. For all we know, Tayschrenn, Quick Ben, and Silverfox could all be capable of channeling just as much power as Beak, and winding up just as dead. If Beak had *survived* I might feel a little bit differently about it. He's a natural High Mage, and that's kind of weird, but the key thing was that he didn't care how much power he had to draw on to save his friends, so he could exceed the limitations of his flesh and bone.

-Max

[tiam]

i see beaks end as a ritual that he was building for days as his candles were burning. Therefore it can count as a pre emptive ritual. Also i see him as a version of Sinn where as he was a natural high mage but didnt know exactly how much of one.

[Kurt Montandon]

Of course, another thing to keep in mind is that mages in the Malazan world don't seem to have any real ability to measure their own strength, or that of others, except through a long period of experience. So one mage can't stand next to another and get a feel for the other's power, unlike in, say, the Wheel of Time world.

So if someone wants to hide their power, or has little experience and thus has no way to judge their own limits, or has never really pushed themselves ... well, it's easy to see why potential High Mages could randomly pop-up from the ranks under high-pressure circumstances. There's simply no good system for identifying them beforehand.

Not to mention all the High Mage level magic users who never enter the military to start with ...

[Morgoth]

and not to mention that parts of Beak's final sucess must be atributed to him channeling all the warrens in that last encounter, or to say it differently, channeling Kurald Thyrlan.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

To me, it was obvious that Beak would die by the end, but that storyline was so well written I loved reading it.

[panic]

Quote

Quote

"As far as I read, QB has 12 warrens, each from 1 singular soul he got, including his own.
In comparison: Beak had 12 warrens by himself..."

I am pretty sure that it was implied somewhere that he has access to even more than that. I'll have to pay more attention on the reread. If you recall him as a kid, he was also a natural mage and seemed to dabble in multiple warrens. He had a twisted sense of humor...I wonder if that was enough to be considered 'damaged.';)

[panic]

Quote

Just as a side note, would Beak's show of power indicate him as one of the most powerful mages we've seen?

QB couldnt neutralize the Edur/Letherii magic on the ships without the help of the Eres and Bottle, Kuru Qan could only match Hanan Mossag (one mage, even if hugely powerful), and even Sinn seemed a bit wary of Beak.

He singlehandedly destroyed a ritual woven over the course of a weak by the 7 top Letherii mages. I know they were only top because of casualties and it says they werent a match for Kuru Qan, but still- a ritual 7 days int he making creating sorcery of that amount.

So if Beak hadnt of died, and had been educated into undertamding how and when to use his magic tactically, do you think he could have become the most powerful magic user on Wu?

When QB faced off against the ships, I thought there were mre than seven of the Tiste Edur mages. Plus the magic they were using was chaos aspected. However, it also wasn't a seven da ritual so it's hard to call. I was under the impression that the chaos infused magic of the Edur made their mages more powerful than the letherii.

Tattersail may have channelled a similar amount of power when she killed herself. Remeber that it was seen for days afterwards (the column of fire).

I think Beak would have been one of the top mages in the world, but he wasn't willing to use his power offensively so he may have gotten his ass kicked from being unwilling to strike back.

[Dolorous Menhir]

I think we have to view it this way: the vast majority of mages use the maximum level of power they can safely handle. We've seen Tayschrenn and Quick Ben at their safe limits (Coral & Icarium, respectively), and I think they're the examples to use when considering relative power levels (ignoring changes over time, of course). No doubt they could've gone further, but it would've killed them.

You can't really compare this to Beak, because he disregarded personal limits and drew so much power he was destroyed. Now clearly Beak was no ordinary mage, but it is possible that lesser mages could also do what he did, also dying in the attempt.

[panic]

The cool thing about characters like QB, Bottle, and Beak are that they would theoretically have an answer to almost anything. Their magic all touches on everything.


I am curious to finally see a High Mage of Ruse (the sea right?). Remember QB talking about how rare the mastery of that warren is? I think that was in MOI.

[Dolorous Menhir]

panic;195816 said:

I am curious to finally see a High Mage of Ruse (the sea right?). Remember QB talking about how rare the mastery of that warren is? I think that was in MOI.

Mallick Rel?

Silgar the slaver used Ruse in HoC, he was also a priest of Mael.

[Brys Beddict]

I liked how Erikson wrote Beak, it showed his skill as a writer to portray such a tragic character. Repeatedly told he was stupid, abused, saw his brother dangling from a rafter with a noose round his neck, it all sets Beak up as character everyone feels so bad for. No one should have to go through that, yet he did. People he told his story to broke into tears or just held him close. He was a tragic character altogether, with some of the greatest parts in RG.

On another note, if power increases as a person is abused, or troubled, or pushed past the limit, it's no wonder QB is so powerful, guy's most likely a basket case. Whiskeyjack stated that QB tricked the souls into joining with him and they were angry with him (When WJ tells Rake the story in MoI), so thats chucking in some inner turmoil from 12 angry chained souls. He's been pushed past the limit fighting Icarium. On top of that is seeing his friends die, over, and over, in places like Mott Wood, Coral, and 7C. QB's been shoved through a fair amount of bad places himself so it's no short wonder his power has jumped exponentially.

[Dark Mac]

Ebron's also a user of Ruse. It's what he used against Karsa, remember?

Dolorous Menhir;195813 said:

I think we have to view it this way: the vast majority of mages use the maximum level of power they can safely handle. We've seen Tayschrenn and Quick Ben at their safe limits (Coral & Icarium, respectively), and I think they're the examples to use when considering relative power levels (ignoring changes over time, of course). No doubt they could've gone further, but it would've killed them.

I think that we can safely say that what Quick did against Icarium was beyond his safe limit. He would've died without ST's healing, and it still took him over a year to recover.

[panic]

Dark Mac;195822 said:

Ebron's also a user of Ruse. It's what he used against Karsa, remember?



I think that we can safely say that what Quick did against Icarium was beyond his safe limit. He would've died without ST's healing, and it still took him over a year to recover.

That's a good point to remember. People are mad at how much QB's power jumped but it had been a year.


In regards to Ruse though I want to see some high magic from it used. Something cool and exclusive to that warren.

[Brys Beddict]

panic;195832 said:

In regards to Ruse though I want to see some high magic from it used. Something cool and exclusive to that warren.

Mallick Rel had his traps wandering around Malaz City near the end of The Bonehunters. Pretty sure the basic premise of them was that if someone tripped the trap they were crushed to death by the pressure of the water.

Quote

It would not be easy slipping through the maze of warrens unleashed in the streets of the city this night. Pockets of virulent sorcery wandered, here and there, mobile traps eager to deliver agonizing death, and Quick Ben recognized those. Ruse, the path of the sea. Those traps are water, stolen from deep oceans and retaining that savage pressure - they crush everything the envelop. This is High Ruse and it's damned ugly

The Bonehunters, pg 835

[xhentil]

I saw Beak coming to an end, but he was so well written. His innocence and his love for the BH, even at the end, as he curled up and just wanted to protect his friends... Deus ex machina be damned, he was fantastic. I think it's just another example of Erikson's motif of love/friendship and tragedy.

Dolorous Menhir;195813 said:

I think we have to view it this way: the vast majority of mages use the maximum level of power they can safely handle. We've seen Tayschrenn and Quick Ben at their safe limits (Coral & Icarium, respectively)...

I keep seeing the complaint of QB being more powerful, but if I remember correctly, Quick said at one point when Onrack and Trull and he were wandering around in the water that something happened to him during his fight with Icarium. We see this manifested when he goes to town on the dragons. To me his character seemed to change a bit too after the battle.

Of course, I personally think that he constantly hides his abilities... so we can't really know if his power jumped or he just... let loose as Dolorous suggests.

[Dolorous Menhir]

The fight ended with Quick Ben's entire body spraying blood and him being thrown backwards - you can regard that as a magical assault by Icarium or the result of "magic strain," for lack of a better phrase.

[Falco]

Its ridiculous how overpowered QB is in this book. He could basically take out the Three Sisters and Ruin all by himself. Thats insane. WTF. There better be a decent explanation for this...

[Mael]

Falco;195877 said:

Its ridiculous how overpowered QB is in this book. He could basically take out the Three Sisters and Ruin all by himself. Thats insane. WTF. There better be a decent explanation for this...

Like everything with QB, its all in the planning. His attack against the 3 sisters was increadibly well timed and executed. (that and he planted his pebble on the one so he knew what was coming)

Like ascendents tend to do, the Elient greatly underestimated thier opponents, flying in only a few meters off the ground in a group intending to just annihilate them with thier breath and then carrying on to destroy the Imass and obtain scabbies finnest. Instead they were slammed with hundreds of tonnes of rock thrust upward which completely thwarted thier attack stunning them and then they were smacked down by the remainder of his warrens and left in a heap. Then SL killed menandor, Hedge killed SL and Sukul flew off to get WTFPWNed by the Imass. He didn't really give them much of a chance to attempt anything, not that they actually had something good planned. QB might not have survived had he been fighting 3 airborn dragons attacking him from 3 different locations, in 3 different ways. The sisters screwed up huge.

As for Ruin, two cussers did most of the work before QB even started in on him and then Ruin LEFT after deciding that it wasn't worth the effort (or maybe he decided that these crazy bastards would do the job for him).

Incidentally one of my favorite Tavore moments was her seeing/hearing what happened to Ruin and reflecting that the Marines were "In a mood". The woman's talent for understatement is astonishing.

[Falco]

Still ridiculously overpowered. Tactical mistakes or no, three ascendants vs. QB? And that wasn't a clever trick with the earth, it was raw power. Same with Ruin. The cussers might've stung, but it was QB he didn't want to mess with.

Hope there's a decent explanation for this power up beyond "Icarium affected me somehow".

[xhentil]

Falco;195976 said:

Still ridiculously overpowered. Tactical mistakes or no, three ascendants vs. QB? And that wasn't a clever trick with the earth, it was raw power. Same with Ruin. The cussers might've stung, but it was QB he didn't want to mess with.

Hope there's a decent explanation for this power up beyond "Icarium affected me somehow".

I agree. However, I've always seen QB as an enigma. Heck we didn't learn about HOW he had so many warrens until MoI, iirc. He always seems to have something up his sleeve, or some uncanny knowledge... I figure this will be revealed, and it will likely be a shaved knuckle in the hole again!