Help
It's a 'mage among the Bridgeburners'. Though quite possibly Baruk helped.
Quick Ben
#61
polishgenius 
- Heart of Courage
-
- Group: LHTEC
- Posts: 5,302
- Joined: 16-June 05
Posted 14 May 2007 - 08:55 PM
I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you.
#62
Illuyankas
- Retro Classic
-
- Group: The Hateocracy of Truth
- Posts: 7,254
- Joined: 28-September 04
- Will cluck you up
Posted 14 May 2007 - 09:07 PM
Well, who else has knowledge of soulshifting?
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#64
fan_83
- First Sword
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 680
- Joined: 05-January 03
Posted 14 May 2007 - 10:41 PM
phart;184796 said:
Unfortunately QB being that powerful does seem to be the way it is, he wrecked the sisters, which of course puts Rakes relative power in to question.
However maybe something has happened to QB which has made this huge increase in power ( well it might not be a huge increase, i may have just misinterpeted how much more powerful Rake Sister Ruin etc are.) but if QB powers has jumped up major levels then its rather lucky it did so just in time for him to confront the sisters.
However maybe something has happened to QB which has made this huge increase in power ( well it might not be a huge increase, i may have just misinterpeted how much more powerful Rake Sister Ruin etc are.) but if QB powers has jumped up major levels then its rather lucky it did so just in time for him to confront the sisters.
Monoch Ochem @ fan_83: What makes you think these 3 mad sisters would have been able to defeat Ruin anyhow? That's what they thought
I'm inclined to think that if Ruin wanted Sheltatha Lore/Sukul Ankhadu (whichever it was that was imprisoned in that Azath) dead, he'd have killed her when he had the chance down there in the mud. He only wanted to get out before the Seregahl got him as he'd already made a deal with the Azath house. Perhaps he's always permitted the sisters their plots and follies. Maybe this time they'd have pushed him too far but they may have thought themselves more than they were worth.
Now as for Ruin v. QB... that one I'm not too sure about. I wonder if QB could withstand a ritual onslaught prepared by Ruin (KG and SD)...yet, I wonder the same about Ruin re QB. Could Ruin then withstand Icarium? Why permit him to stay alive thus far if the Eleint could have so disposed of him? Yet QB was able to face Icarium down for a while....12 or more souls... that's a lot a power to summon. All he needs is a way to bolster his physical flesh and blood.
to answer both questions: i admit that on a one to one basis, qb could and will beat one of the sisters.. but the problem comes when its 3 on1..
it doesn;t matter that the 3 are not even 1/3 of ruins power.. synergy has the effect of making a weaker group more powerful/.. for qb to be even more powerful than aqll 3 sisters when they are sane and working together will definitely rank him more powerful than ruin..
regarding ruin power level.. the 3 sisters have interacted with ruin over the milennia and I would think that they have a more accurate interpretation of ruins power than anyone else.. one of the sisters said so herself.. 2 of them would not beat ruin but 3 of them would..
back to the situation at hand.. qb stunned the 3 sisters.. thats a given.. but whats debateble for me is the fact that i don;t believe qb has teh power to wack all 3 sisters at the same battle//
my reasoning is that the maximum power required to wack all 3 sisters is way higher than the mortal human flesh limitations... remember that it doesn;t matter if qb has 10000 mage souls.. its the amount of power that his human flesh can channel safely thats important.. and until hes ascended or aspected/aligned to any other factions that can provide a boost to him..
he wouldn;t be able to ascend to the league required to wack the 3 sisters in one battle..
perhaps it owuld be possible if he has a couple of hundred years to grow.. but not now
#65
Gem Windcaster
- Bequeathed Overmind
-
- Group: LHTEC
- Posts: 1,844
- Joined: 26-June 06
- Location:Sweden
Posted 14 May 2007 - 11:11 PM
fan 83, I admit I don't understand your reasoning. Evidently Quick Ben did beat down the sisters, evidently he did make a enraged Ruin fly away with his scaled tail between his legs. Ruin was set on slaughter - he's wasn't just flying by. So I refuse to think he simply gave up because...he was surprised? How do you explain this, if you don't think Quick can do it? To me it doesn't matter if Quick Ben surprised the sister or Ruin - so what if it comes down to intelligence? Does it really matter? Quick is smart enough to have the upper hand when fighting draconic ascendants. That doesn't make the fight lesser - there's nothing noble about taking perfectly unecessary magical hits.
_ In the dark I play the night, like a tune vividly fright_
So light it blows, at lark it goes _
invisible indifferent sight_
So light it blows, at lark it goes _
invisible indifferent sight_
#66
fan_83
- First Sword
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 680
- Joined: 05-January 03
Posted 15 May 2007 - 12:13 AM
Gem Windcaster;185101 said:
fan 83, I admit I don't understand your reasoning. Evidently Quick Ben did beat down the sisters, evidently he did make a enraged Ruin fly away with his scaled tail between his legs. Ruin was set on slaughter - he's wasn't just flying by. So I refuse to think he simply gave up because...he was surprised? How do you explain this, if you don't think Quick can do it? To me it doesn't matter if Quick Ben surprised the sister or Ruin - so what if it comes down to intelligence? Does it really matter? Quick is smart enough to have the upper hand when fighting draconic ascendants. That doesn't make the fight lesser - there's nothing noble about taking perfectly unecessary magical hits.
in a fight i can knock my opponent down, but does that make me the winner of the fight? thats my question.. qb got the first shot in but thats not a decisive shot especially when you compare it in terms of endurance and stamina..
ruin purpose in lethar is to go after the letharii govt and the edur for causing him trouble when hes searching for bloodeye... when he got there, he found the edur gone and the letharii govt destroyed.. before he has the chance to pull out he was attacked.. tell me.. is there a reason for ruin to fight when his target isn;t there anymore?
he has no grudge against the malazans nor the letharii citizens.. so please tell me why would he go all out to fight qb and the sappers?
i am assuming hes treating the 2 cussers and the attack by qb as a result of battle chaos.. and thus see no reason to retaliate..
it would be very very pathetic ofr ruin the youngest son of mother dark, the one who drank the most draconic blood of tiam is taken down by a human mage and a couple of cussers after what he has accomplished in his time..
he took down countless fokrul amd kchain, which singularly could butcher groups of malazans to fall so easily..
do remember that ruin took a knife to the back and still suvive .. the cussers blast in draconic form will probably bruise and the magical wave will hurt but that does not mean his defeat..
i am drawing parrallels to the reatreat of rake at pale..
do you believe that tay is stronger than rake then since rake retreat at pale? when massive evidence suggests otherwise?
#67
Gem Windcaster
- Bequeathed Overmind
-
- Group: LHTEC
- Posts: 1,844
- Joined: 26-June 06
- Location:Sweden
Posted 15 May 2007 - 12:26 AM
I admit I have no idea how strong Quick is in comparison to Rake and others he never has fought. I just know he took down Ruin with seeminly a sneeze. it might be that Ruin wasn't that powerful to begin with. Or it could be the draconeans are vulnerable to warrens. Or Quick Ben is very powerful.
My theory is that Quick Ben's strength in fights is that he never goes into mindless rages and such. He uses his mind to get the upper hand - any trick he can think of. But I also think that he autonomously has the upper hand because he is so smart. He never underestimates an opponent. He never draws more power than is absolutely necessary. He can see the opponents weak spot.
As for Ruin not fighting the malazans - I don't think that them being malazan has anything to do with anything. He came to Letheras to kill people. He did start to attack them - and that's the main reason Quick had to step in. He retreated because he was too damaged to continue. Ruin isn't a creature that easily is diverted from his chosen path. And as a dragon he is even more bloodthirsty than normal. Whyever would he retreat because of some 'battle chaos'? And why would a raging draconean suddenly use 'reason'? Besides he did try to 'retaliate' - that's why he attacked in the first place.
Correct me if I am wrong, and Ruin didn't attack first - but I don't think so.
My theory is that Quick Ben's strength in fights is that he never goes into mindless rages and such. He uses his mind to get the upper hand - any trick he can think of. But I also think that he autonomously has the upper hand because he is so smart. He never underestimates an opponent. He never draws more power than is absolutely necessary. He can see the opponents weak spot.
As for Ruin not fighting the malazans - I don't think that them being malazan has anything to do with anything. He came to Letheras to kill people. He did start to attack them - and that's the main reason Quick had to step in. He retreated because he was too damaged to continue. Ruin isn't a creature that easily is diverted from his chosen path. And as a dragon he is even more bloodthirsty than normal. Whyever would he retreat because of some 'battle chaos'? And why would a raging draconean suddenly use 'reason'? Besides he did try to 'retaliate' - that's why he attacked in the first place.
Correct me if I am wrong, and Ruin didn't attack first - but I don't think so.
_ In the dark I play the night, like a tune vividly fright_
So light it blows, at lark it goes _
invisible indifferent sight_
So light it blows, at lark it goes _
invisible indifferent sight_
#68
Where is Dassem Ultor?
- Captain
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 192
- Joined: 02-January 07
- Location:Boston
Posted 15 May 2007 - 02:02 AM
I don't understand why QB showing vestiges of great power upsets so many people. This is like Karsa Orlong all over again - a mortal shows himself to be powerful, and people jump on the hate-wagon.
Quick has clearly improved since MoI, where he was self-admittedly not a combat mage (with his killing of Reloe in HoC, he started to kick magical ass) and I agree with the people saying that he has muscled up in magical prowess. He still prefers his brain to his brawn (cue to him huddled in the corner of the Frost Wolf in BH) but the man has learned how to fight. And let's not forget that he still has Tays as his shaved knuckle in the hole.
Though he may have been frightened by the fights he was getting in, he still hasn't called upon his fellow High Mage, and I think that in itself is something to think about.
Quick has clearly improved since MoI, where he was self-admittedly not a combat mage (with his killing of Reloe in HoC, he started to kick magical ass) and I agree with the people saying that he has muscled up in magical prowess. He still prefers his brain to his brawn (cue to him huddled in the corner of the Frost Wolf in BH) but the man has learned how to fight. And let's not forget that he still has Tays as his shaved knuckle in the hole.
Though he may have been frightened by the fights he was getting in, he still hasn't called upon his fellow High Mage, and I think that in itself is something to think about.
#70 Guest_darkwolf_*
Posted 15 May 2007 - 03:05 AM
Where is Dassem Ultor?;185142 said:
I don't understand why QB showing vestiges of great power upsets so many people. This is like Karsa Orlong all over again - a mortal shows himself to be powerful, and people jump on the hate-wagon.
Quick has clearly improved since MoI, where he was self-admittedly not a combat mage (with his killing of Reloe in HoC, he started to kick magical ass) and I agree with the people saying that he has muscled up in magical prowess. He still prefers his brain to his brawn (cue to him huddled in the corner of the Frost Wolf in BH) but the man has learned how to fight.
Quick has clearly improved since MoI, where he was self-admittedly not a combat mage (with his killing of Reloe in HoC, he started to kick magical ass) and I agree with the people saying that he has muscled up in magical prowess. He still prefers his brain to his brawn (cue to him huddled in the corner of the Frost Wolf in BH) but the man has learned how to fight.
Quick Ben gradually growing in power? I tend to differ.
In GotM he wrestled with Raest - a task that proved extremely difficult to four Soletaken Tiste Andii Dragons and one pure blooded one - Sillanah (sp?).
In MoI he created a landslide consisting of about 1/3 of the mountain, using only (?) three Warrens, and directed it with precision enough to avoid swallowing Bridgeburners as well. Which is commented as if it was MORE believable if QB had 12 High Mages helping him. Or a god. ;-)
Not to mention him punching Bauchelain, Korbal Broach and our beloved Crippled God right between the eyes. Which proved too much for B&KB to retaliate.
My theory is: QB is powerful, as we see. We know he is by far more powerful than any ordinary High Mage, and that does not include Tays helping hand in need. :-)
He is also paranoid and devious and prefers to work behind the scenes and out of the lights - not as front-man. He wants to deceive everyone (without using real power, preferably - remember the demon illusions in MoI?), twisting the odds with brains, not brute power. The exact opposite meaning of force than in Rake's, Ruin's or Brood's hands, don't you think?
Which makes him disturbingly similar to Shadowtrone, in my opinion.
#71
- Group: Unregistered / Not Logged In
Posted 15 May 2007 - 06:33 AM
One other advantage QB has over Ruin - Ruin knows nothing about the human warrens. He'd never heard of Mockra for instance, so it's likely he could be hit by the unexpected.
#72 Guest_darkwolf_*
Posted 15 May 2007 - 07:47 AM
Hetan;185168 said:
One other advantage QB has over Ruin - Ruin knows nothing about the human warrens. He'd never heard of Mockra for instance, so it's likely he could be hit by the unexpected.
That isn't strictly true. While he almost certainly is unable to use them, he might have seen their effects - so no element of surprise on QB's part.
After all, his spirit was loose to wander and observe - and not confined to Letherii continent - the Fall of Crippled God, which we see in MT, is the best example. A reluctant gift of Mother Dark, as he says.
#73
GardenGnome
- Emperor
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 947
- Joined: 31-May 06
Posted 15 May 2007 - 08:21 AM
Well, he does make a remark about how this new system is unknown to him, at some place. Somewhere when Seren Pedac mentions Corlo and his magic.
#74
drinksinbars
- Soletaken
-
- Group: High House Mafia
- Posts: 2,162
- Joined: 16-February 04
Posted 15 May 2007 - 08:31 AM
finally finished RG and now its my turn for my opinion. short quick ben rules.
couple of points - baruk created the elixer for coltaine who passed it on to duiker because wickans are reiterated they dont ascend, nel or nither in house of chains. I have deadhouse around here somewhere but i know i am right.
as for this sudden burst of power, well we have been seeing the whole way through the series quick getting stronger and stronger. In GOTM he only really had seven warrens, not twelve. Erikson clearly developed the back story though for MOI and he became twelve mages. Each book though that quick has been in he has exposed more and more of his power.
at the start of RG we see in the shadow realm his legs are rotting because his body couldnt contain the power he unleashed against icarum. When he arrives in the tellann warren he is healed of his afflictions ands his body is stronger than before.
After each confrontation he understands his power more and grows in strength sufficient to be a major player.
will finsih later...busy
couple of points - baruk created the elixer for coltaine who passed it on to duiker because wickans are reiterated they dont ascend, nel or nither in house of chains. I have deadhouse around here somewhere but i know i am right.
as for this sudden burst of power, well we have been seeing the whole way through the series quick getting stronger and stronger. In GOTM he only really had seven warrens, not twelve. Erikson clearly developed the back story though for MOI and he became twelve mages. Each book though that quick has been in he has exposed more and more of his power.
at the start of RG we see in the shadow realm his legs are rotting because his body couldnt contain the power he unleashed against icarum. When he arrives in the tellann warren he is healed of his afflictions ands his body is stronger than before.
After each confrontation he understands his power more and grows in strength sufficient to be a major player.
will finsih later...busy
#75
GardenGnome
- Emperor
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 947
- Joined: 31-May 06
Posted 15 May 2007 - 08:44 AM
It was QB who made the elixir. Lookie, quotes:
Now, only mage to fit the description would be QB
Quote
He leaned forward and held out a hand, palm up. Something shimmered into existence on it, a small oblong bottle of smoky grey glass on a silver chain. 'And, from an alarmingly mysterious mage among the Bridgeburners, this gift was fashioned.' He held it out to Coltaine. 'For you. Wear it. At all times, Fist.'
[...]
'The Empress must not lose you, Fist. Wear it, sir. Always.
And when the time comes, break it - against your own chest. Even if it's your last act, though I suggest you do not leave it until then. Such were its creator's frantic instructions.' Karpolan grinned again. 'And such a man, that creator! A dozen Ascendants would dearly love his head served up on a plate, his eyes pickled, his tongue skewered and roasted with peppers, his ears grilled—'
[...]
'The Empress must not lose you, Fist. Wear it, sir. Always.
And when the time comes, break it - against your own chest. Even if it's your last act, though I suggest you do not leave it until then. Such were its creator's frantic instructions.' Karpolan grinned again. 'And such a man, that creator! A dozen Ascendants would dearly love his head served up on a plate, his eyes pickled, his tongue skewered and roasted with peppers, his ears grilled—'
#76
drinksinbars
- Soletaken
-
- Group: High House Mafia
- Posts: 2,162
- Joined: 16-February 04
Posted 15 May 2007 - 10:11 AM
GardenGnome;185189 said:
It was QB who made the elixir. Lookie, quotes:
Now, only mage to fit the description would be QB
Now, only mage to fit the description would be QB
interesting - nice find gnome:)
#77
fan_83
- First Sword
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 680
- Joined: 05-January 03
Posted 15 May 2007 - 11:29 AM
Gem Windcaster;185121 said:
I admit I have no idea how strong Quick is in comparison to Rake and others he never has fought. I just know he took down Ruin with seeminly a sneeze. it might be that Ruin wasn't that powerful to begin with. Or it could be the draconeans are vulnerable to warrens. Or Quick Ben is very powerful.
My theory is that Quick Ben's strength in fights is that he never goes into mindless rages and such. He uses his mind to get the upper hand - any trick he can think of. But I also think that he autonomously has the upper hand because he is so smart. He never underestimates an opponent. He never draws more power than is absolutely necessary. He can see the opponents weak spot.
As for Ruin not fighting the malazans - I don't think that them being malazan has anything to do with anything. He came to Letheras to kill people. He did start to attack them - and that's the main reason Quick had to step in. He retreated because he was too damaged to continue. Ruin isn't a creature that easily is diverted from his chosen path. And as a dragon he is even more bloodthirsty than normal. Whyever would he retreat because of some 'battle chaos'? And why would a raging draconean suddenly use 'reason'? Besides he did try to 'retaliate' - that's why he attacked in the first place.
Correct me if I am wrong, and Ruin didn't attack first - but I don't think so.
My theory is that Quick Ben's strength in fights is that he never goes into mindless rages and such. He uses his mind to get the upper hand - any trick he can think of. But I also think that he autonomously has the upper hand because he is so smart. He never underestimates an opponent. He never draws more power than is absolutely necessary. He can see the opponents weak spot.
As for Ruin not fighting the malazans - I don't think that them being malazan has anything to do with anything. He came to Letheras to kill people. He did start to attack them - and that's the main reason Quick had to step in. He retreated because he was too damaged to continue. Ruin isn't a creature that easily is diverted from his chosen path. And as a dragon he is even more bloodthirsty than normal. Whyever would he retreat because of some 'battle chaos'? And why would a raging draconean suddenly use 'reason'? Besides he did try to 'retaliate' - that's why he attacked in the first place.
Correct me if I am wrong, and Ruin didn't attack first - but I don't think so.
errr if my reading of the book is correct, ruin was flying towards letharas and was heading in when the malaz starts throwing cussers at him... and then qb jumped in.. throughout the scene, ruin has done nothing wrong other than flying in to letharas if my memory serves.. so how can that be a sign ofbloodthirstiness..
darkwolf
when has qb wrestled with reast? that was paran with hound blood coursing through him..
KB and broach was a matter of surprise .. please reread moi.. after showing off he was exhausted and the dou was only knocked out and not dead.. thats a surprise attack on 2 mages without any extra wards or protection handy..
i will say it again... qb is powerful.. thats without a doubt.. but comparatively.. hes not on the league with ruin, rake and osservc.. he is smart, devious and cunning ,., that is true,, but in a pure power battle.. i still believe qb would tie or lose to tays.. after all tays is aspected/blessed by a goddess with increased his tolerance for magic as well as being significantly older, while qb is unaligned which doesn;t provide any protection and young..
#79
drinksinbars
- Soletaken
-
- Group: High House Mafia
- Posts: 2,162
- Joined: 16-February 04
Posted 15 May 2007 - 12:27 PM
why do people think quick is young? some of the souls within him are very old. Remember he also has access to kuruld galain, so there may be a full blooded andii residing inside him, we are not completely aware of all the power he possesses and i think erikson must read the scary bunch forums and realise that this debate about QB rages on and wante dto show just how double hard he is!!!
one thing - at the end of RG it does say anomander is silchas's superior in magic and strength.
one thing - at the end of RG it does say anomander is silchas's superior in magic and strength.
#80 Guest_darkwolf_*
Posted 15 May 2007 - 08:02 PM
fan_83;185227 said:
darkwolf
when has qb wrestled with reast? that was paran with hound blood coursing through him..
when has qb wrestled with reast? that was paran with hound blood coursing through him..
At Simtal's party, when he switches bodies into Mammot, after Derudan empties her own warren. This is the first time we see him use seven warrens at once. I've used word "wrestled" in a more metaphorical way than I should, and I apologize.
Yes, I credit Hedge's recklessness Azath's quick intervention for an abrupt end of battle - but still, he didn't just evaporate like most of other people - he isn't harmed. And that is a contest of power with a Jaghut who managed to wound or cast off TA Soletakens and Silanah.
fan_83;185227 said:
KB and broach was a matter of surprise .. please reread moi.. after showing off he was exhausted and the dou was only knocked out and not dead.. thats a surprise attack on 2 mages without any extra wards or protection handy..
He also says that it was intentional ("it would be rude [...]") as he didn't want to kill Broach. Mind you, they were unconscious long enough for Emancipor to carry them into garden - which means if QB wanted to waste them, throwing a knife would do the trick. Or leaving a Moranth-produced bomb, just to be sure - not everyone is Oponn's Chosen.
Apart from exhaustion - it seems he planned to used that to catch Hood's hood (pun intended) - and have a long chit-chat with him.
fan_83;185227 said:
i will say it again... qb is powerful.. thats without a doubt.. but comparatively.. hes not on the league with ruin, rake and osservc.. he is smart, devious and cunning ,., that is true,, but in a pure power battle.. i still believe qb would tie or lose to tays.. after all tays is aspected/blessed by a goddess with increased his tolerance for magic as well as being significantly older, while qb is unaligned which doesn;t provide any protection and young..
Tay has left the order (fleed
from Kartool, more precisely - it's hinted in HoC and Banashar proves it in BH) and cut all ties with D'rek. His soul is again his own (Agayla, NoK). He certainly isn't blessed by her anymore - not to mention she tried to kill him as well during the all-my-priests-die routine.
That said, his own power is still impressive.
And we don't know neither the age of Tay nor the age of QB, so we can't assume that QB is younger.
