[tjc52]

One other thing to note, while Ruin may have been one of the strongest Characters in existence at the time of the Midnight Tides Prologue, I don't think he is anymore. As he himself comments, Kurald Galain is very weak in Letheras. I reckon that this is partly due to Gothos Ritual, but mainly because Silchas is trying to use it as he would have used the Hold of Darkness back in the deep past, where as magic has since evolve into the warrens, which he hasn't had time to adapt to. Hence, I think this has made him much weaker, for the moment, than he would be, as his abilities with magic have become very limited. Bringing it back to the old question of whether Rake or Ruin is stonger, at the minute, I go with Rake, as he knows how to use the warrens, where as Ruin is trying to use the warrens like holds, and its not going well. Thats what allowed Ruin to get battered by Quick Ben, after he was damaged by the cussers.

[Morgoth]

also.. with the three sisters.. If you're up against someone much stronger and better at fighting than you, then kick them in the groin and continue kicking them so they're unable to get up again.. one surprise hit and you can keep whomever down and thus win no matter who's the strongest.. *shrugs*

[fan_83]

tjc52;184538 said:

One other thing to note, while Ruin may have been one of the strongest Characters in existence at the time of the Midnight Tides Prologue, I don't think he is anymore. As he himself comments, Kurald Galain is very weak in Letheras. I reckon that this is partly due to Gothos Ritual, but mainly because Silchas is trying to use it as he would have used the Hold of Darkness back in the deep past, where as magic has since evolve into the warrens, which he hasn't had time to adapt to. Hence, I think this has made him much weaker, for the moment, than he would be, as his abilities with magic have become very limited. Bringing it back to the old question of whether Rake or Ruin is stonger, at the minute, I go with Rake, as he knows how to use the warrens, where as Ruin is trying to use the warrens like holds, and its not going well. Thats what allowed Ruin to get battered by Quick Ben, after he was damaged by the cussers.

errr there is no warren of darkness.. its an elder warren adn thus still a hold which is what ruin is used to using.. besides with the ritual still in place, magic has not evolved and thus it should be warren users who are in trouble as said in the earlier books



qb managed a hit to knock the 3 sisters down. they are down but not out.. come on the fist of earth is probably the same as a blow to the jaw which stunned the sisters for a while before they got upright again and wack qb..

[polishgenius]

fan_83;184551 said:

qb managed a hit to knock the 3 sisters down. they are down but not out.. come on the fist of earth is probably the same as a blow to the jaw which stunned the sisters for a while before they got upright again and wack qb..

They were down, and then Sheltatha turned on Menandore because she saw they were beaten while Sukhul Anadu (sp) took the long way round while hoping to never meet Quick Ben again.

It's not like he slapped them once and ran away.

[GardenGnome]

Keep in mind, Monrath munitions are made as mage-killers, and we know from GotM that contact with magic has a very devastating effect. So, hit a dragon readying for (magic) attack with a munition, and you'll royally screw him over. As for the sisters, I think the "earth uppercut" as someone called it was very important for his success - it threw them off balance and interrupted their concentration.

[Dolorous Menhir]

phart;184527 said:

So you think it was perfectly reasonable to assume that QB could waste 3 Tiste elient ascendants?

QB didn't kill any of the Tiste sisters. One was decapitated by her erstwhile ally, who was in turn blown up by Hedge. The third ran away and was killed by the Bonecasters.

[fan_83]

polishgenius;184552 said:

They were down, and then Sheltatha turned on Menandore because she saw they were beaten while Sukhul Anadu (sp) took the long way round while hoping to never meet Quick Ben again.

It's not like he slapped them once and ran away.

and if i punch a semi sane person and the semi sane person starts attacking innocent bystander does that make me a better fighter then her?

sheltatha hates menandore and she isn;t that sane in the first place.. also remember that qb is slightly wasted after that shot while the sisters could go for more rounds


GardenGnome
Keep in mind, Monrath munitions are made as mage-killers, and we know from GotM that contact with magic has a very devastating effect. So, hit a dragon readying for (magic) attack with a munition, and you'll royally screw him over. As for the sisters, I think the "earth uppercut" as someone called it was very important for his success - it threw them off balance and interrupted their concentration.

moranths ammo are not mage killers... the chances for a sapper to get into throwing range to kit a mage is way to slim.. its jsut a lucky side effect of the ammo..
also the ammo hits the dragon body.. unless ruin is using magic to help him fly, then the ammo only works like an normal explosion and not enchanced

[Illuyankas]

The chance of a Moranth dropping one from a quorl onto a mage is considerably higher, though, which is how they were most likely designed. And it'd still blast a sizable hole in a dragon.

[phart]

Dolorous Menhir;184569 said:

QB didn't kill any of the Tiste sisters. One was decapitated by her erstwhile ally, who was in turn blown up by Hedge. The third ran away and was killed by the Bonecasters.

Sorry i meant beat up so bad that one comments she never ever wants to see him again. But you knew that, so why just dont you just answer the question, did you think he was able ;-)

[Monoch Ochem]

It's pretty conclusive to me....QB caused the 3 to realise that they couldn't combine to vanquish him. They felt the power and THAT was what stopped them. Them turning on each other was the next best objective.

Stopped solid in their tracks, they then decided to pursue their personal goals...even in the face of their failure and the danger they were in, their hate for each other was stronger.

So take it from the Soletaken dragons themselves...they knew defeat when it swatted them from the sky; or else they'd have continued fighting QB.

[fan_83]

Illuyankas;184694 said:

The chance of a Moranth dropping one from a quorl onto a mage is considerably higher, though, which is how they were most likely designed. And it'd still blast a sizable hole in a dragon.

its considerably higher but still not too high... any cadre of mage worth their salt would be able to counter the quorls by jsut unleashing their warrens upwards adn watch teh quorls drop like flies..

monoch: your argument is sound if all 3 sisters are sane.. you have to remember that they are allies under circumstances and one of them is semi sane.. that put things in a whole new ballpark..

if your argument is sound, then the power equation would be 3 sisters more than ruin and qb more than the 3 sisters..
do you see what happens now.. tha would mean that qb would be up about equal in power to rake and osserc, the 2 great powerhouse of sorcery.. i am sorry but no matter how powerful qb is currently at the moment, he is not up to that level

[Gem Windcaster]

Hey people, stop excusing the sister already! Quick pwned them, and that's that!

[phart]

fan_83;184778 said:

its considerably higher but still not too high... any cadre of mage worth their salt would be able to counter the quorls by jsut unleashing their warrens upwards adn watch teh quorls drop like flies..

monoch: your argument is sound if all 3 sisters are sane.. you have to remember that they are allies under circumstances and one of them is semi sane.. that put things in a whole new ballpark..

if your argument is sound, then the power equation would be 3 sisters more than ruin and qb more than the 3 sisters..
do you see what happens now.. tha would mean that qb would be up about equal in power to rake and osserc, the 2 great powerhouse of sorcery.. i am sorry but no matter how powerful qb is currently at the moment, he is not up to that level

Unfortunately QB being that powerful does seem to be the way it is, he wrecked the sisters, which of course puts Rakes relative power in to question.
However maybe something has happened to QB which has made this huge increase in power ( well it might not be a huge increase, i may have just misinterpeted how much more powerful Rake Sister Ruin etc are.) but if QB powers has jumped up major levels then its rather lucky it did so just in time for him to confront the sisters.

[Monoch Ochem]

@ fan_83: What makes you think these 3 mad sisters would have been able to defeat Ruin anyhow? That's what they thought

I'm inclined to think that if Ruin wanted Sheltatha Lore/Sukul Ankhadu (whichever it was that was imprisoned in that Azath) dead, he'd have killed her when he had the chance down there in the mud. He only wanted to get out before the Seregahl got him as he'd already made a deal with the Azath house. Perhaps he's always permitted the sisters their plots and follies. Maybe this time they'd have pushed him too far but they may have thought themselves more than they were worth.

Now as for Ruin v. QB... that one I'm not too sure about. I wonder if QB could withstand a ritual onslaught prepared by Ruin (KG and SD)...yet, I wonder the same about Ruin re QB. Could Ruin then withstand Icarium? Why permit him to stay alive thus far if the Eleint could have so disposed of him? Yet QB was able to face Icarium down for a while....12 or more souls... that's a lot a power to summon. All he needs is a way to bolster his physical flesh and blood.

[Set'alahd Crool]

Come on people! Quick admits to Hedge that he pushed himself too far against Icarium, and after recovering he's a lot meaner. Now I'm inclined to think "Meaner" doesn't refer to his personal finances.

The only question is how much meaner. He seems more than a match for any one of the sisters, since when one of them sought to extricate herself from his initial attack he swatted her down easily enough. Quick surely knew of the sisters mutual animosity, so as soon as theur alliance broke he stopped showing off.

Against Ruin we don't know how much damage the cussers did, but I'd say a lot. Still, they didn't drive Ruin off, Quick did.

I think that in pushing himself against Icarium he has reached a critical point in his developement as a high mage. As has been pointed out, he's quite young for a high mage, so he probably hasn't peaked yet. Assumng this developement is tied to usage (among other things, such as inate potential, number of souls etc...) then it's reasonable to assume that improvement doesn't happen at a constant rate. Quick has just experienced an enforced sorcerous growth spurt.

[Dolorous Menhir]

I don't think we can conclude that QB is so powerful he could kill all three sisters outright. He was just so strong that fighting him would be costly, enough so that the alliance between the three was shattered.

[ASAGO]

panic;183575 said:

"Huh? Did I miss something there? As far as I thought that item was delivered to Coltaine by the Trygalle Guild, without it being said it was made by QB. (Unless this bit is revealed in RG, which is on its way to me)"


It was said subtly that Ben was the one who sent it for Coltaine. The Trygalle guide mentioned how intriguing the mage who made it was.

"I get that feeling too. And it makes sense. I mean, the dude have had twelve warrens to access - twelve! There's got to be more to it than he've showed so far. And there has to be a reason for Quick being a paranoid sneaky bastard...
Btw, I don't think he'll hide as much now."


I thought it's been implied that he can access possibly 14 or more but that accessing 12 of them in a short time will wear him out a lot. See the two necromancers fight - he accessed 12 in a short time, but I'm sure he held some back. He didn't need more.

It is mentioned that quick ben sent that item to colintine somewhere i cannot pinpoint the place, but i dont think he made it, I am streatching out a little, It might have been made or givin to him by an asendent, like i said it is mentioned somewhere back.

[polishgenius]

ASAGO;184892 said:

It is mentioned that quick ben sent that item to colintine somewhere i cannot pinpoint the place, but i dont think he made it, I am streatching out a little, It might have been made or givin to him by an asendent, like i said it is mentioned somewhere back.

It's pretty clearly stated in the quote provided on the second page of the topic that it was Quick who created it. Well, the mysterious mage anyway - and I don't think they meant Spindle.

[Dolorous Menhir]

I thought it was Baruk who made it, but QB is just as likely.