[caladanbrood]

Dolorous Menhir;185517 said:

I suppose. I blame the tools of the god, rather than the god himself. Perhaps that doesn't make sense, but Trull threw the spear, Sirryn slipped in the knife. Not the Errant.

Oh. Ok. I had the impression that you hated the Errant, because you're in the "Lets Hate the Errant Club".

No matter then.

[Gem Windcaster]

caladanbrood;185519 said:

Oh. Ok. I had the impression that you hated the Errant, because you're in the "Lets Hate the Errant Club".

No matter then.

Well, it's worth being in the club even if you don't hate the Errant the most...we hate Kallor too. The errant just happens to no. 1.

[Dolorous Menhir]

caladanbrood;185519 said:

Oh. Ok. I had the impression that you hated the Errant, because you're in the "Lets Hate the Errant Club".

No matter then.

Hmm. The Errant really annoyed me as a character in Reaper's Gale, with all the stupid stuff he did (getting maimed by Feather Witch, throwing a tantrum because there was a new Master of the Deck, turning out to be an unfortunate combination of arrogant and stupid).

It's not really traced in particular to the death of Trull or the Ceda, or even Brys. I accept those things as events that had to happen, in a way. The personality of the Errant is a bit different.

[Gem Windcaster]

Indeed. The Errant is the most annoying character by far. Not even the Mhybe or Felisin, or Karsa in his worst moments wasn't even close to the Errant.

Edit: typos.

[phart]

Dolorous Menhir;185517 said:

I suppose. I blame the tools of the god, rather than the god himself. Perhaps that doesn't make sense, but Trull threw the spear, Sirryn slipped in the knife. Not the Errant.

That reasoning would have seen every soldier convicted but none of the commanders in military history, though he never commanded them he coerced them.

[Dolorous Menhir]

I'm not trying to be one of the judges at Nuremberg here. I'm just explaining how I formed my opinion of the Errant, since Brood questioned it.

It's not the result of a deep logical analysis of events and motivations, it's how I reacted emotionally to what happened.

[Dancer+]

Is there actually anyone left who likes the Errant?

If not then I might be his no.1 fan, but I very much doubt that I would describe my disposition to him as neutral-slightly like although i have to admit I agree with people about his actions, especially his mix of stupidity and arrogance, the fact that he had a part in Trull's death and Brys doesn't affect my opinion, even though I liked both of them

[Gem Windcaster]

The Cult of Dessembrae;185575 said:

the fact that he had a part in Trull's death and Brys doesn't affect my opinion

I think it should. No offense.

[Apsalar Shadowdancer]

Dolorous Menhir;185509 said:

I don't see it that way. He manipulated the situations so they would die, but didn't do the deed directly. Plus, that's what he does, I just don't blame him for it.

The way i read that is: if i tied a white guy up, put put in a room with a bunch of gang bangers from Detroit, and told them he hated black people, it would not be my fault he died. After all i didn't shoot him, i just put him in a situation where he would die 9/10 times.

yeah.... i don't buy that.


btw I live in Detroit, and any comments made here were not directed in a derogatory way at gang bangers from Detroit. Please don't hurt me....

Edit: maid =/= made

[Dancer+]

Gem Windcaster;185602 said:

I think it should. No offense.

You're probably right...

I think I'm just trying to stand up for the Errant because he's quite pathetic, and quite hated at the same time. One of the first parts in the book I felt really had injected life into the book was the Errant's declaration. I can't say I liked the Errant in MT at all, in fact i disliked him quite a bit then. I just think Brys died at a time he should of, even though it was ignoble and Trull, well i liked the character and he was from HHS so I should be angry, but I didn't want Trull to live on with the burden of having no family. It happened so suddenly that instinctively I'd rather just forget about it in my own way, if you know what I mean.

[Gem Windcaster]

The Cult of Dessembrae;185804 said:

You're probably right...

I think I'm just trying to stand up for the Errant because he's quite pathetic, and quite hated at the same time. One of the first parts in the book I felt really had injected life into the book was the Errant's declaration. I can't say I liked the Errant in MT at all, in fact i disliked him quite a bit then. I just think Brys died at a time he should of, even though it was ignoble and Trull, well i liked the character and he was from HHS so I should be angry, but I didn't want Trull to live on with the burden of having no family. It happened so suddenly that instinctively I'd rather just forget about it in my own way, if you know what I mean.

It's true I like the theme about compassion in the series, and in the end I end up feeling sorry for characters like feather Witch, even though they are very annoying. It's true I can understand that the Errant has been through alot in his days, but he has continually made wrong decisions and payed for them. Even so I can't like him one bit. I even thought the way he got rid of Feather Witch was a cowards act, and thoroughly horrible. I don't care she was a pain in his pretty ass. In a way the Errant is Paran's opposite in more ways then one. I think the rest speaks for itself. And I truly hope Paran get to show him a thing or two.

That said, I am always open to changes in characters and their eyes being opened, so to speak. Maybe the Errant will do something right in the end. That doesn't mean I condone what he has done so far.

Btw, I don't think we have seen the last of Trull. For one, his legacy will live on.

[BridgeBurner]

The Cult of Dessembrae;185575 said:

Is there actually anyone left who likes the Errant?

If not then I might be his no.1 fan, but I very much doubt that I would describe my disposition to him as neutral-slightly like although i have to admit I agree with people about his actions, especially his mix of stupidity and arrogance, the fact that he had a part in Trull's death and Brys doesn't affect my opinion, even though I liked both of them

I'm indifferent to him, actually.

I don't like to see characters that I like die (in whatever way) because of some nudging any more than most others on this board, but it's simply what he does/has to do, his reason for existence. (And a good way for SE to get rid of characters that he doesn't think he'll need in further books too )

From how I pictured the Errant in MT, the tantrum about there being a Master of the Deck, and him wanting to challenge that, fits right in with his vanity.

Maybe it's because I'm less emotional about characters than others. I didn't hate Pormqual or Mallick Rel as well. Not even Bidithal, who was left to his devices by other characters that are hated less than he is. I also didn't hate Kallor for killing Whiskeyjack, because if you reread well, Whiskeyjack had it coming since GotM. And it was a great and well written scene. It's characters like these that add to the tragedy... And that's part of why these books are so great.

Having said that, I wouldn't mind if the Errant would be made to pay though, along with Oponn.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Tupac Amaru II;185949 said:

Trull's dead left me broken after I finished reading 'Reaper's Gale.

Letting him stay alive would have make much more sense. As last surviving member of the noble Sengar bloodline, he could have become the new leader, - as a, for instance 'High King' - of the Tiste Edur, leading them back to their ancestral homelands in the north and leading the restoration of villages, their original culture (Jurald Emurhlan), political system, etc.

And what about Trull's role as 'Knight of Shadow'? That role could be perfectly combined with his role as leader of the Tiste Edur, in the same way as Anomander Rake is the leader of the Tiste Andi and Knight of Darkness.

That's a good point - how many high ranking Edur are there left? The Edur leadership was pretty much the Sengar family + Hanradi Khalag, so after RG there's just Hanradi left. I'm guessing all the Krisnan are done for too, though that's not necessarily so.

It's a shame, I wanted to know more about the "Tiste alliance" that Hannan Mosag was trying for. It almost seemed like he was going to be redeemed as a new character, but I guess not.

[Veilside]

Gem Windcaster;184898 said:

I don't understand what you mean he should have done? He found out after it happened.

Same as he did to the CG, beat the crap out of him.

[Gem Windcaster]

Veilside;186069 said:

Same as he did to the CG, beat the crap out of him.

Maybe he did - he did mention something about a 'discussion'.

[Monoch Ochem]

@ Apsalar Shadowdancer: Errr... "gang bangers" luv????

I'd suggest to you that that's something ENTIRELY different from what you perhaps were trying to say!

I take it you're referring to a black gang? Hmmm... these terms are troublesome. Maybe not the best analogy. Maybe try any gang and say that the person tied up in the room is an informant who just 'grassed' them up... perhaps?

But point taken. The Errant commits the crime even if he doesn't swing the sword himself. He caused it and if anything is DOUBLY guilty of murder itself and creating a murderer.

I think he's loathsome and pathetic now that I know what he really is. Errant/Oponn .... let's just say that while Shadowthrone found even the very CONCEPT of a MAster of the Deck to be repulsive, I find the very concept of the Errant/Oponn to be an afront to logic and order.

[polishgenius]

Monoch Ochem;186148 said:

@ Apsalar Shadowdancer: Errr... "gang bangers" luv????

I'd suggest to you that that's something ENTIRELY different from what you perhaps were trying to say!

I take it you're referring to a black gang? Hmmm... these terms are troublesome. Maybe not the best analogy. Maybe try any gang and say that the person tied up in the room is an informant who just 'grassed' them up... perhaps?

Apparently, in America it also means what was meant.

It always sounds hilarious to my British-raised ears.

[the corinthian]

toc's death hit me hard,
hes been one of my favorite characters since he first let loose some arrows back in GotM, he was the only really cool archer in this series and it made him different, (hell the only other guy with a bow is iccy, and he never uses it)
sucks that im lacking people to blame for his death, even though its got kinda an errant stink on it, bit of a coincidence and all with tool, but i figure hes got enough hate going his way anyway

question tho, how'd toc keep his stone arrows? or did he make some new ones, cant remember

edit: oh, maybe crokus in the future, i was chuffed when he picked up the edur bow, could end up quite cool

[Dolorous Menhir]

the corinthian;186168 said:

question tho, how'd toc keep his stone arrows? or did he make some new ones, cant remember

Not sure, but I think original-Toc had them until they were taken by Anaster while he served in the Tenescowri. And they remained in his possession until Anaster became AnasToc. So Toc Mk II still has Toc Mk I's weapons.