[Coldsnap]

Hey guys. I want to start a discussion on the Crimson Guard, if possible, just toss around ideas and observations! I know they havent been covered all that much in the novels, but i just think its one of the coolest part of the story: this idea about a formidable group of soldiers banished from their homeland by the expansionist ways of the malazan empire... led by an extremely good and seemingly great strategist like the prince, who can forge alliances with Brood, Rake, Crone... the big guns... with characters like Skinner, Blues, and how cool was Iron Bars and the concept of the seemingly age-defying avowed... how death's knight is chasing skinner, sheer will can overcome the odds against an Avowed... how good these swordsman are compared to the likes of Dassem and such... I mean, its just so cool the way erikson has just subtly dropped hints, observations, mild story lines about them and created this picture in my head of maybe the coolest group of all... without even actually writing too much at all. I love how good Skinner is supposed to be, love how powerful their high mages are, love how good the Prince is supposed to be at planning war, and how crazy good Iron Bars was against gods and soletaken... Edur and just plain hooligans. What do ya think? How about the Errant being so impressed with Iron Bars and wondering just how many Avowed there still are? How old do you think they are, and what do you think will be covered in The Return of the Crimson Guard?

[Dolorous Menhir]

First, use paragraphs in the future please. Especially if you are starting your own thread.

The Crimson Guard are roughly a century old. They were set up in reaction to the conquering of Unta by the Malazan Empire and the resulting fall of the d'Avore royal line. Since that Empire is roughly 110 years old as of BH, and Unta must have been an early conquest, that's how old the CGrd is. So I would guess that individual Avowed are roughly 130-180 years old at this point.

I can't remember exactly what generation of descendants Iron Bars refers to. Seren says he doesn't look that old, and he responds with "I have ..." but I can't remember if it was grandchildren or great-great-grandchildren. The latter would make more sense given his age.

As for the rest of your questions, I don't know.

[paladin]

They seem almost like a tilt of the hat to the Black Company to me, but fleshing them out and popping them in the story should be good. They're definately powerful and I would like to see some gnarly battles with em

[Saccian]

Woah. I don't understand why you felt DM's response was insulting in anyway and find the need to cut him(well it almost extends to everyone on this forum) down. He just simply asked for paragraphs if possible. You'll find there are a lot of people on here who have looked in all the nooks of crannies of the book to get as much info as they could and I don't see that as a bad thing. Its for the lore that I personally come here.

That aside, I am very intrigued by the CG and hope to hear more of them and the Seguleh. Skinner should be quite interesting if he ever gets a chance to take a role. I was already impressed enough with Iron Bars.

[Folken]

offensive posts have been deleted. anymore posting on the argument and I'll get Morgoth to come after you with his Flaming Sword of Modship

[Gem Windcaster]

I for one would like to see a fight between The Seguleh First and for
instance Skinner. The Crimson Guard's story is one of the storylines in the
books that drive me nuts with its subtlety. Though I it is very effective in
its own, infuriating way. Anyone else that would like either a Cg kick the arse
of some Seguleh? Or possibly A Seguleh beating Karsa senseless?
Now, that would be a sight.

[shadowdancer]

Does the book have a publication date yet?

[Phael]

@windcaster -There are so many outstanding swordsmen it's impossible to choose which two I'd most like to see face off, I'm hoping that Rhulad's curse will bring some of the greats together!

Back on topic, Prince Kazz D'Avore is obviously a great tactician but is there mention anywhere of his actual fighting ability? Think I remember something from MT? could be wrong!

[Onrack the breakable]

I think it is telling that the Crimson Guard never seemed to gain an inch of ground while the Emperor was alive. But now that he's dead they're all super badarses. They're such losers, its taken them hundreds of years and a vow of immortality to become halfway competent soldiers.

Just poking fun. Iron Bars was awesome in MT. But it seemed awfully overdone. And anyway he did get the crap kicked out his arse despite all his strutting around like a god.

[Obdigore]

Onrack, he went in after a being that was worshipped as god. He kept most of his people alive, and they killed the thing.

[Abyss]

The CGrd are a classic SEism, in that we hardly see them, but just by virtue of a handful of references they have become this centre of awesomeness and fan love (see also Dassem Ultor, Greymane, the Seguleh, Nefarias Bred...).

And of course, Iron Bars was awesome and Corlo said there were others who were even better, which basically made most of us fans for life of a bunch of characters we've never seen and might never see.

At least TB put to rest the whole 'Corporal Blues is the Seguleh Second' debate.

Onrack's point, i think, goes more to the abilities of the Malazan army than the Guard - faced with several hundred or more near immortal uber soldiers, the Malazans were still holding their own. We saw in HoC how a small squad of clever soldiers could take out a way more powerful opponent. (plus the ME had its share of champions too, see NoK for details and more CGrd goodness, albeit briefly).

I actually suspect that Brood's comment in GotM that the Guard were pre-occupied wasa cover for the fact that they were scattered and barely recovered from Assail, hence why the Sixth Blade was the only group of 'exceptional' Guards available, or else the Sixth are a sort of elite squad a la Bridgeburners (given Blues, Fingers, and Cowl being members).

Someone remind me: was it the Bhargast Jorrik Sharplance or Prince D'avore that the Gold Moranth were refusing to fight?

- Abyss, can't keep his unseen supporting characters straight.

[paladin]

they make it sound like the cg is a huge collection of people like dassem's squad including ferrule and temper and such(i forget if they had a name for it)

[Clip]

Well, the Avowed are, well, avowed to get back Kazz D'Avore's throne back in.. Unta, was it? Well anyway, Kallanved conquered Quon Tali with the T'lan Imass, no? So it makes sense for the Crimson Guard to be outmatched...

[Dragnipurake]

"Someone remind me: was it the Bhargast Jorrik Sharplance or Prince D'avore that the Gold Moranth were refusing to fight?"

Jorric was a CG fellow (avowed?) who led the barghast to decimate the gold moranth after they were fooled into believing they were winning. i dont know if they actually had the chance to withdraw.

[Locke Reaper]

The fact that Iron bars fought five toblakai ascendents and only got a broken arm and a sliced hip for his efforts, that is after fighting an d'ivers ascendent, is pretty damn awe inspiring.

As for the t'lan imass (there superiority is giving me a bit of a pain in the butt so i really love the fact that something outthere is eating them for lunch) they've been fighting jughut for thousands of years the crimson gaurd has been going fot a measly 100 years give or take. in a few years even imass are going to step lightly around them!

[Saccian]

I think Corlo should be given a lot of credit for the Toblakai fight. He did after all make them all hesitate and believe Iron Bars was more of a threat then he probably was. The battle may have been alot different without his powers.

[Set'alahd Crool]

I think maybe Ruin deserves some small amount of the credit for killing the Seregahl, no?

[Saccian]

Well yes, I guess he ultimaley is the one who finishes em all. The CG guys just tenderized em some, they are good cooks.

[sphish]

I think some of you guys are overestimating the T'lan Imass, much of the time too. In MoI, the first sighting Gruntle has of the Kron T'lan Imass puts 60 T'lan Imass out of action permanently against no more than 5 K'Chain Che'malle.

Factor in that, the same book has the T'lan Ay losing none in that fight, in the same section, and the Seguleh Third and his two brothers take out one in the span of seconds.

The T'lan Imass aren't invicibile, and aren't as powerful as people seem to believe, but when you have tens of thousands of undead warriors who have no qualms of dying, and no regard for their own safety... it kind of puts a distinct advantage to the fight, in their favour.