[Dolorous Menhir]

I blame Cold Iron for reappearing.

[Cold Iron]

I never left. Well, maybe for a few months like 3 years ago...

[stone monkey]

It should come as no surprise to anyone who's ever met, or even spoken to me, that I'm an atheist. For the record; a- theist = without a god.

Technically, I suppose, I'm actually an atheist agnostic; I can't know there's a god, no-one can, but the balance of probabilities and the available evidence would lead me to conclude that there isn't one.

I'm also a secular humanist; which has very little to with whether one believes in god and everything to do with what kind of role you think religion should play in society

[Defiance]

Nothing more than a mote of dust. Oh, you meant religion.

I don't know. I doubt everything. I doubt God, and I doubt there being nothing. I suppose most people would classify me as agnostic. Or an idiot; I've made some theories about what God could theoretically be and most people have just laughed or gotten pissed off. Not that I necessarily believe my own theories, I just enjoy exploring possibility.

I'll believe in God when an old dude with a white beard appears before everything in the world at once and starts doing magic while he says "okay motherfuckers, this is what's up."

[frookenhauer]

so...what is your theoretical thingy about god?

I for one promise not to be pissed off or bored

regarding your last statement...you really had to be there

[Defiance]

Well, one theory. I'll keep it short, though I could talk about forms vs. Forms, phenomena and noumena, and all sorts of other stuff for longer than anyone would care to listen just to make my point.

Well, to start I'll be guilty of tautology in saying that God is infinity. I think the majority of people who believe in God would agree with this statement, however. Now, we'll just ignore the fact that saying God, one thing, is infinity - it's a paradox that we could argue endlessly and end up getting nowhere (after all, of infinity exists, than infinity must rise to an infinity of infinities, which would mean that everything exists, everything is possible).

Now, I can't conceive of the existence of nothing - there's another paradox for you. Anyway, the reason being is if nothing is out there - if there is a limit to existence/reality - than there would only be nothing. Kind of ties in with what the Man in Black says at the end of the first Dark Tower - to suggest an end is the one absurdity. And so, if nothing does not exist, than existence infinity. So, God = infinity and existence = infinity, and so God is existence. In which case, the fact that you exist "worships" God. Your death worships God. Everything we can do worships God, because you can't destroy existence - sure, you can kill someone, but you can't completely destroy their essence. In the end, even if it's all dust, it's still existence.

The reason why I can't accept anything like Heaven or Hell is partially because, in terms of philosophy, I lean more towards Kant than Plato. For those that are unfamiliar, Kant spoke of noumena while Plato (or, rather, Socrates) spoke of Forms. Noumena are things that exist outside the human experience - they exist, but they cannot be named or defined, or even known for that matter - the most we can know is that they exist. Plato's Forms, on the other hand, are the pure essence of things, that which can only provide us with truly genuine knowledge. Differing from Kant, Plato believes that once we break free of our shackles and enter the light (allegory of the cave) we can see these Forms (and so they can be named and defined). Now, the first problem I have with Heaven is that, if it exists, humans can never know it or have even the slightest idea of what it's like. The second thing is how Heaven/Paradise would differ for every individual, based upon our conceptions of such. The third is what happens to my "evil-ness" if I go to Heaven? I can't conceive of there being evil in Paradise, and so wouldn't I have to have all of my "evil-ness" and doubt removed? And, once that happens, memories accompanying that "evil-ness" and doubt would need to be removed for me to experience Paradise - in which case I've been brainwashed and I am no longer me.

Obviously, I'm a bit of a philosopher, and like all philosophers I have absolutely no idea what the fuck I'm talking about.

[worry]

God is an Hourglass.

[frookenhauer]

So in essence you refuse to disbbelieve in god and if heaven exists the you that is you would not know you were there, because you would no longer be the you that you knew. Cool!

But seriously, if evilness was removed from you would you not be better off? And is this lack of evilness promised anywhere (scripture wise), I know some religions are promised multiples of 12's of virgins, and others are allowed to bask in his holy radiance ( sunglasses provided, of course) , and whatever else is out there.

Also, would that not mean (if we died and went to heaven) we are in our own pocket universes of heavens and all the poeple around us are merely players? Because heaven without people around you that you like would be awful. And these constructs of the people that you like to be around would have to be pretty darn accurate to convince you of their realness, for want of a better word. And if that is true would they not in fact be identical to the original. And if that is true then they are the original...multiples of multiples and infinities of heavens to cater for everyones heavens...man, I think my mind is cracking under the pressure of getting my head around that. Look, I've touched on a lot of lives in my life, both good and bad, and if this line of thought (or absurdity if you prefer) is corect then right now there are a multiple number of me's in someones heaven and if that is true, then I am in heaven...a number of people that I dearly love and have been loved by have died over the course of my life, and these people have been pretty damn good people so I'm pretty certain I'm up there right now doing beatific things and basking in the light as it were. So...I can now pretty much not worry about praying to any form of god as I will most definitely be going to heaven...am in heaven.

So...Just so long as you are nice to at least one decent person, you will go to heaven(s)

Oh and GOD is not an hourglass, doesn't infinity kind of go against the whole hourglass thingy due to it's closed nature and all that?

(edit to remove typos and not a re-write )

This post has been edited by Frookenhauer : 19 September 2010 - 05:53 PM

[stone monkey]

Well, y'know, some infinities are bigger than others

[frookenhauer]

you got me there

[ThinkingMalaz]

I'm new on this forum so Hi,

I'm an atheist and a secular humanist. In my own personal view on life I have been influenced by a lot of different things, from major atheist writers to Taoist and Zen Budhist philosophies...

I dislike dogma a lot in religions, but I don't see any problem in taking out of it those ideas I do find admirable or positive... For example I am very interested in religious phenomena like trances and mystical experiences. I do believe those experiences are real, but are a product of our brain rather then a supernatural thing. But I think these trances (through meditation, sufi mystical practices, speaking in tongues or whatever) are useful in that they generally have a very positive emotional effect on the people experiencing them. I know these phenomena can now be induced neurologically, and I think it's worthwhile to look into that further.

[Shpetim]

huh. here I thought I was the only muslim here. But there's ten of us. YAY!..

[nacht]

I am a follower of Dessambrae because I am a walking tragedy.

Nah! just kidding.

Freedom!!!, that is my religion.

You are free. This is your greatest gift.
You are free to choose your actions and you free to choose the state of your mind as long as "you" dont violate somebody else right of the same.

[Grimjust Bearegular]

I'm a big fan of science....does that make me a Scientologist?




I don't believe in anything, but that's not to say I believe in nothing. I just don't believe. Period.

[Use Of Weapons]

Grimface Insultbear, on 01 February 2011 - 06:43 PM, said:

I'm a big fan of science....does that make me a Scientologist?




I don't believe in anything, but that's not to say I believe in nothing. I just don't believe. Period.

[p1000]

I'm Christian (Catholic). Could go on about religion for ages, love it as a topic, but i'll just leave it at that i'm happy to believe in the 'spirit' of someone whom i believe had a good head on their shoulders and a good heart and who had a beautiful, idealistic dream for the world we could make, and i love to share that belief with others around me. Whatever anyone has faith in (doesn't have to be theistic), the bonds it creates between people can be fantastic; it helps keep societies together. It can be misused too, but what can't humans corrupt if they put their minds to it, eh?

[p1000]

Forgot to add; thanks for the song! Hadn't heard that in years and i liked it when it first came out. Brought back nice memories. Still think of her as 'half of Shakespear's Sister', though.

[Orlion]

I am 'Other'.... that's really the best answer I can give. I do not claim there is a God, I do not claim there isn't a God, nor do I claim one can not know there is or isn't a God.....
Incidently, I'll argue from all these positions at various times

[ThinkingMalaz]

actually that would make you an atheist

[Orlion]

ThinkingMalaz, on 10 February 2011 - 01:21 PM, said:

actually that would make you an atheist

By your definition