[Obdigore]

Spoiler

Yes, the Merlin is so in love with power that perhaps if he learns these dark arts, he would get more power. He could also be corrupting people inside the organization slowly but surely.

This post has been edited by Imperial Historian: 29 September 2008 - 04:33 PM

[Dance]

Obdigore;359491 said:

Spoiler

Yes, the Merlin is so in love with power that perhaps if he learns these dark arts, he would get more power. He could also be corrupting people inside the organization slowly but surely.

Spoiler

I don't see him as loving his personal power so much as the power he has as Merlin. Destroying the White Council would mean giving up a large part of that power. Unless he's literally the entire mastermind behind it and is sure he'll end up in charge again, I suppose...

This post has been edited by Imperial Historian: 29 September 2008 - 04:33 PM

[QuickTidal]

Just finished White night....great stuff, and he sewed up a few plotlines which was great as well. Seriously, this series is on its way to becoming my favourite series ever. Butcher just keeps knocking them out of the park for me.

I have my (signed) hardcover copy of Small Favor awaiting me to begin it tomorrow....WOOT! (also sad that I will have to wait till April '09 after that for Turn Coat...and I will join the ranks of the rest of you fans who are caught up to Small Favor)

Question though:

Spoiler

Since the "shadow" version of Lasciel rather "Lash" is no longer with him, and Father Forthill was going to pick up the blackened Denarius coin, does that mean Harry no longer has access to Hellfire? Also, does anyone else MISS Lash now? When shye was helping him at the end there to block the psychic attack, did anyone else feel that Harry had gotten through to her and she might have been turned for good?

This post has been edited by Imperial Historian: 29 September 2008 - 04:33 PM

[polishgenius]

Spoiler

Yeah, no more Hellfire. And I did feel a bit sorry for Lash. I thought that was the whole idea, that he changed her - if not entirely for good, then at least not entirely evil.

This post has been edited by Imperial Historian: 29 September 2008 - 04:33 PM

[Avon]

Spoiler

That's just the shadow, I don't think there's any connection back to the real thing. She might be a bit harder to redeem.

This post has been edited by Imperial Historian: 29 September 2008 - 04:33 PM

[QuickTidal]

Avon;363732 said:

Spoiler

That's just the shadow, I don't think there's any connection back to the real thing. She might be a bit harder to redeem.

Spoiler

yeah, but I LIKED the shadow, and the fact that Harry seemed to be able to save that aspect of Lasciel...and I WAS thinking (before I finished White Night, that Harry might be making a play to eventually save the REAL Lasciel in the coin (that talk him and Lash had about his mother seemed to end without him finding out much after all) and perhaps turning her real self good.....but then that little bit about Forthill coming to get the coin seems to put the lid on that train of thought...unless he may encounter the coin again at some point in the future. Sigh. Question Questions!

This post has been edited by Imperial Historian: 29 September 2008 - 04:33 PM

[QuickTidal]

Spoiler

A straight quote from Jim himself about the coins that the church has and a little tidbit about Lash that it seems was meant to tickle our fancy about a Lasciel redemption:

Re: Father Forthill's coin collection
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2006, 11:06:20 PM »

Quote from: Bob on November 30, 2006, 07:31:59 PM
It seems to me that as long as the Church has some of the coins, those paerticular Denarians are neutralized. Doing a Mt Doom with the coins might free up the spirits housed within to act freely in the world.

Well. Not quite freely, but MORE freely, certainly. The Fallen bound in the coins are the freaking elite of Hell--everyone the big D didn't want trying to stab him in the back, basically. If they were suddenly freed it would do all kinds of horrible things to about a million balances of power, with repercussions that would last for centuries.

Which assumes that they /can/ be destroyed. I mean, don't think that in 2,000 years, no one has ever TRIED it. And there are still thirty of them kicking around.

Which isn't necessarily to say that it's impossible. But it sure as Hell wouldn't be easy. And given that, while in the coins, they ARE effectively frozen in carbonite without a human agent to assist them, containment certainly seems to be a prudent course.

Funny you should mention that whole notion about redeeming Lasciel . . . >Smiley

Jim

A quote from the man himself that will keep me guessing! Ha!

This post has been edited by Imperial Historian: 29 September 2008 - 04:33 PM

[QuickTidal]

Just finished SMALL FAVOR......and it was fraking brilliant. Loved it as much as the others. Lots of good stuff to sink your teeth into. My main problem now is thus.....I am now in the boat with the rest of you guys awaiting the next volume...TURN COAT.....salivating is more like it. Sigh.

Mr. Butcher has my crack and he won't give me any....boo! LOL

[Obdigore]

Here is the 'blurb' from Turncoat from Jim Butcher's website:

Jim Butcher said:

The Warden Morgan has been accused of treason against the Wizards of the White Council--and there’s only one, final punishment for that crime. He’s on the run, wants his name cleared, and needs someone with a knack for backing the underdog. Someone like Harry Dresden.

Now, Harry must uncover a traitor within the Council, keep a less-than-agreeable Morgan under wraps, and avoid coming under scrutiny himself. And a single mistake may cost someone his head--someone like Harry.

Turn Coat hits bookshelves April 7th, 2009.

(with the funny symbols and everything, just as it is on his site)

[Abyss]

aaaaaaand pre-ordered.

- Abyss, needs his annual dresden fix...

[QuickTidal]

Abyss;375429 said:

aaaaaaand pre-ordered.

- Abyss, needs his annual dresden fix...

Ditto. I want it to arrive on my doorstep.....as if by magic!

[wintermute]

I'm surprised you don't like the Alera Codex. I actually really liked it. I would say I have liked it more than the Dresden Files books I've read. It's a little cliche in parts, but the cliches are fresh and interesting, if you follow (if you don't that's cool too). The magic system is also fun and the characters (even the villains) are likable. Like the Dresden Files, it's not very deep, but it really is a lot of fun.
Final say: you can probably pick up the first one at a used bookstore for a couple bucks and it's a pretty quick read. If you don't like it you haven't wasted much, but if you do you have a brand new series to enjoy.


Ed: this post made more sense where I thought it was going to be placed, but I still stand by the stuff in it.

This post has been edited by wintermute: 28 September 2008 - 07:20 AM

[Aptorian]

Oooookay. I've been trying to avoid this thread untill I got around to reading the series.

10 books and an hour reading through this thread later, I can finally comment on this stuff.

I'm going to go ahead and say the unthinkable, It's heresy but... I love this series more than the Malazan Books of the Fallen. There. I said it. It's out.

From book three up to small favor the series only becomes more and more awesome. Or maybe it's not so much getting better as it's simply maintaining an unbelievable level of amazing entertainment. I've been slightly less thrilled with Reapers Gale and Toll the Hounds as I was with the rest of the series. Butcher on the other hand, 10 books in, still hasn't missed a step... at least in my opinion. Allthough 23 books sounds incredible, I have complete faith in Butchers potential.

Someone said this earlier and I completely agree, these books read like a summer blockbuster action extravaganza. Forget the TV-series, this needs t get the attention that Harry Potter got. Am I the only one who thinks Will Smith would be the perfect cast for Harry Dresden? He's black, obviously, but he's also tall, charming and his wisecracking personality fits well with Harry Dresdens personality.

I simply cannot wait to read the next installment. This is like litterary heroin injected straight into the brainstem.

[Aptorian]

Hate to double post but I thought I'd seperate these two posts.

EDIT: Better put this in a big spoilerbox

Spoiler

So, making a list.

Potential Black Council members -

Cowl - Definently up to some serious evil. Strange as he didn't seem outright evil in Grave Peril. More Lawfull Evil.

Thorned Namsiel - Stole the Coins. Betrayed Nicodemus. Potentially the agent involved in the attack upon Actis Tor

Potential traitors among the good guys. -

The Merlin - He's certainly an asshole. I just think it would be too obvious if he was Black Council

Ancient Mai - She didn't like Harry at all. While Harry vouches for the Gatekeeper and Ebenezar vouches for Injun Joe, Ancient Mai remains my personal favorite suspect.

Kincaid - Personally I think he's too much of a good guy to hang out with the Black Council. If he was Evil he wouldn't had left the Beast Drakuls service... or would he?

--------------------------------------
Questions/suspicions after finishing Small Favor.

I think Marcone has the Coin. I don't think he's been turned but I think he's got the shadow.

Nicodemus isn't dead. It irritates me that Harry didn't finish the job, but he's such a great baddie.

I wonder if Sanya is a threat. Harry is supposedly the only one who's beaten the shadow. That means that a copy of Magog is still hanging out inside Sanyas head. Unless of course the whole Sword of God thing cleared that up.

What is up with Mab. She seemed way more scary and powerfull in Small Favor, but she needs someone to speak for her? We saw when she finally spoke in the chapel that it nearly killed Harry. I wonder if she's losing control of herself. Madness?

Why was Arctic Tor attacked? Was the winking/blinking icestatue in the tower Mab or just a statue? Was it an assassination attempt or was the Black Council seeking something? As of yet I still don't understand the motivation of such an attack.

If the Outsiders are coming into play, does that mean that the Outer Gates are weakening? Are the Elder Beings/Old Ones going to appear? Someone has suggested that Butcher is using Lovecrafts lore, I would so love it if Chuthulu appeared....Ooohhh.

So, someone drives Harry of the road and in the next book someone blows up Murphy's car? What is this about.

Who fixed Little Chicago? Someone came through Harry's wards and changed an extremely complex magical construct without leaving a trace. I suspect it was Uriel.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 28 September 2008 - 12:33 PM

[QuickTidal]

Aptorian, on Sep 28 2008, 07:30 AM, said:

Hate to double post but I thought I'd seperate these two posts.

EDIT: Better put this in a big spoilerbox

Spoiler

So, making a list.

Potential Black Council members -

Cowl - Definently up to some serious evil. Strange as he didn't seem outright evil in Grave Peril. More Lawfull Evil.

Thorned Namsiel - Stole the Coins. Betrayed Nicodemus. Potentially the agent involved in the attack upon Actis Tor

Potential traitors among the good guys. -

The Merlin - He's certainly an asshole. I just think it would be too obvious if he was Black Council

Ancient Mai - She didn't like Harry at all. While Harry vouches for the Gatekeeper and Ebenezar vouches for Injun Joe, Ancient Mai remains my personal favorite suspect.

Kincaid - Personally I think he's too much of a good guy to hang out with the Black Council. If he was Evil he wouldn't had left the Beast Drakuls service... or would he?

--------------------------------------
Questions/suspicions after finishing Small Favor.

I think Marcone has the Coin. I don't think he's been turned but I think he's got the shadow.

Nicodemus isn't dead. It irritates me that Harry didn't finish the job, but he's such a great baddie.

I wonder if Sanya is a threat. Harry is supposedly the only one who's beaten the shadow. That means that a copy of Magog is still hanging out inside Sanyas head. Unless of course the whole Sword of God thing cleared that up.

What is up with Mab. She seemed way more scary and powerfull in Small Favor, but she needs someone to speak for her? We saw when she finally spoke in the chapel that it nearly killed Harry. I wonder if she's losing control of herself. Madness?

Why was Arctic Tor attacked? Was the winking/blinking icestatue in the tower Mab or just a statue? Was it an assassination attempt or was the Black Council seeking something? As of yet I still don't understand the motivation of such an attack.

If the Outsiders are coming into play, does that mean that the Outer Gates are weakening? Are the Elder Beings/Old Ones going to appear? Someone has suggested that Butcher is using Lovecrafts lore, I would so love it if Chuthulu appeared....Ooohhh.

So, someone drives Harry of the road and in the next book someone blows up Murphy's car? What is this about.

Who fixed Little Chicago? Someone came through Harry's wards and changed an extremely complex magical construct without leaving a trace. I suspect it was Uriel.

I think it was sometime after I read Proven Guilty that I decided that Butcher was better at entertaining me than Erikson. I also feel that the series is better than the Malazan books too, and I agree that Reapers Gale and Toll the Hounds (which I am still not finished and am having to slog to get through) are slowing the series down. Butcher, after 10 books just keeps things clicking along and I was ravenous about them.

[Abyss]

Aptorian, on Sep 28 2008, 08:05 AM, said:

Oooookay. I've been trying to avoid this thread untill I got around to reading the series.

10 books and an hour reading through this thread later, I can finally comment on this stuff.

I'm going to go ahead and say the unthinkable, It's heresy but... I love this series more than the Malazan Books of the Fallen. ...Someone said this earlier and I completely agree, these books read like a summer blockbuster action extravaganza. ...This is like litterary heroin injected straight into the brainstem.

Welcome to the fold Apt'. While i don't put Butcher over SE, Dresden is top three of any series i am currently reading. It's astounding just how much sheer FUN Butcher can pack into a single books. To this day, i still think the finales of DEATH MASKS and GRAVE PERIL are two of the best things i have ever read, period.

I'll deal with your spoileriffic post below...

- Abyss, always happy to see another addict...

[Abyss]

Hate to double post but I thought I'd seperate these two posts.

EDIT: Better put this in a big spoilerbox

Spoiler

So, making a list.

Potential Black Council members -

Cowl - Definently up to some serious evil. Strange as he didn't seem outright evil in Grave Peril. More Lawfull Evil.

Thorned Namsiel - Stole the Coins. Betrayed Nicodemus. Potentially the agent involved in the attack upon Actis Tor

Potential traitors among the good guys. -

The Merlin - He's certainly an asshole. I just think it would be too obvious if he was Black Council

Ancient Mai - She didn't like Harry at all. While Harry vouches for the Gatekeeper and Ebenezar vouches for Injun Joe, Ancient Mai remains my personal favorite suspect.

Kincaid - Personally I think he's too much of a good guy to hang out with the Black Council. If he was Evil he wouldn't had left the Beast Drakuls service... or would he?

Cowl seems likely but i suspect he's got his own agenda. top two theories for Cowl include Harry's supposedly dead uncle and future-Harry trying to change the past. I think Butcher will surprise us.

Thorny is confirmed an agent of the Black Council. Whether he's a full blown member is tbd. Seems more like a flunky.

Merlin i agree seems to obvious. I predict more of a 'Harry, i was wrong, avenge me aaaahhhhh i die now' moment.

Ancient Mai, possible. It's been inplied there's an asian vampire Jade Court and i can't help but wonder whether her immortal mysterious bit covers a different alliance to them.

Kincaid... i could see him working for them for pay, but fundamentally that would almost be too obvious. We KNOW he's a bad guy, but he's a mercenra bad guy with a soft spot for omnipotent ten year olds.

--------------------------------------
Questions/suspicions after finishing Small Favor.

I think Marcone has the Coin. I don't think he's been turned but I think he's got the shadow.

I think Marcone is smarter than that but i have to admit i like the idea that he's got the same strength of will that Harry does. I've always thought Marcone a great character.

Nicodemus isn't dead. It irritates me that Harry didn't finish the job, but he's such a great baddie.

Yes but he impressed me more in DEATH MASKS than he did in SMALL FAVOR. The Denarians lost a lot of their air of menace in the latter book.

I wonder if Sanya is a threat. Harry is supposedly the only one who's beaten the shadow. That means that a copy of Magog is still hanging out inside Sanyas head. Unless of course the whole Sword of God thing cleared that up.

Point is made more than once that Sanya was redeemed, so i imagine not.

What is up with Mab. She seemed way more scary and powerfull in Small Favor, but she needs someone to speak for her? We saw when she finally spoke in the chapel that it nearly killed Harry. I wonder if she's losing control of herself. Madness?

I read it as anger.

Why was Arctic Tor attacked? Was the winking/blinking icestatue in the tower Mab or just a statue? Was it an assassination attempt or was the Black Council seeking something? As of yet I still don't understand the motivation of such an attack.

Unknown but it seems they were seeking something.

If the Outsiders are coming into play, does that mean that the Outer Gates are weakening? Are the Elder Beings/Old Ones going to appear? Someone has suggested that Butcher is using Lovecrafts lore, I would so love it if Chuthulu appeared....Ooohhh.

So, someone drives Harry of the road and in the next book someone blows up Murphy's car? What is this about.

Who fixed Little Chicago? Someone came through Harry's wards and changed an extremely complex magical construct without leaving a trace. I suspect it was Uriel

All unknown but possible. In WHITE NIGHT Cowl brought in primitive ghouls that certainly suggested a primal, uglier power at work.

Someone's after Harry and we don't know whom. I thought that dangling plotline became more overt in SMALL FAVOR, maybe too much so.

The Little Chicago thing remains a mysery.

All good fun.

- Abyss, big fan.

This post has been edited by Imperial Historian: 29 September 2008 - 04:31 PM

[Aptorian]

Spoiler

"Cowl seems likely but i suspect he's got his own agenda. top two theories for Cowl include Harry's supposedly dead uncle and future-Harry trying to change the past. I think Butcher will surprise us."

What ever happened to his sidekick? Did she die in the end of the book? I liked her.

"]Thorny is confirmed an agent of the Black Council. Whether he's a full blown member is tbd. Seems more like a flunky."

Thorny is a pretty dangerous wizard. I can hardly imagine a fallen angel settling for flunky.

"Ancient Mai, possible. It's been inplied there's an asian vampire Jade Court and i can't help but wonder whether her immortal mysterious bit covers a different alliance to them."

Any contact between Ancient Mai and the Jade court would seem a bit mysterious, no? Of course, what status vampires have in Asia is another matter. They might be some kind of benevolent, immortal worshipped people of honor.

"Kincaid... i could see him working for them for pay, but fundamentally that would almost be too obvious. We KNOW he's a bad guy, but he's a mercenra bad guy with a soft spot for omnipotent ten year olds."

I could see him do a job for them. But the blow a head of a powerplayer, type thing. Nothing that will potentially kill a kindergarden or throw the world into anarchy.

The guy is really all heart under all that macho "I'll kill you from a thousand yeards" hum drum.

--------------------------------------
Questions/suspicions after finishing Small Favor.

Spoiler

"I think Marcone is smarter than that but i have to admit i like the idea that he's got the same strength of will that Harry does. I've always thought Marcone a great character."

Even the most devote or strongest of character can be tempted. I could see Marcone making a deal with the devil. Remember, Marcone is a lot colder than Harry, I think he would enter a pact with his angel, but on his premises. No innocent blood, etc.

"Nicodemus isn't dead. It irritates me that Harry didn't finish the job, but he's such a great baddie."
Yes but he impressed me more in DEATH MASKS than he did in SMALL FAVOR. The Denarians lost a lot of their air of menace in the latter book."

I think that the obvious difference in this book was that we mainly saw Nicodemus taking damage in Death Masks. Nico is nigh invulnerable because of the rope. All but serious damage, like complete incineration, won't stop him. The other Denarians do not have this protection. Deidre/Medusala screamed when she was shot at and retreated in Death Masks. Likewise snake guy was a complete pussy but for his magic.

In this book we mainly see "vanilla" denarians take damage and if say, their head explodes, they do go down for good. As I understand it they're merely mortal bodies whom the angel has "enhanced", the fallen aren't able to fully utilise their powers, mainly it's their experience and knowledge that makes them so dangerous.

"I wonder if Sanya is a threat. Harry is supposedly the only one who's beaten the shadow. That means that a copy of Magog is still hanging out inside Sanyas head. Unless of course the whole Sword of God thing cleared that up."

Point is made more than once that Sanya was redeemed, so i imagine not.

You may have a point.

I had to put down the book, I was laughing that hard, when he exclaimed "Small... but fierce!" and Michael keeps telling him to stop it.

This post has been edited by Imperial Historian: 29 September 2008 - 04:28 PM

[Imperial Historian]

You can't have quote tags within spoiler tags guys or it doesn't work, fixed it for these posts.

[Paran]

Well, I definitely love Dresden Files, though not as much as MBotF. It's pretty light stuff that you can speed through without provoking too much thought, but actually has surprising depth and story for what it is. Had the first 4 on audio book, then read TotH, then read the rest of the dresden files, then read RotCG. I can tell you that the malazan books were far more gut-wrenching and awe inspiring than the dresden files, but reading DF is a great way to quickly pass a day. Btucher hits all the right buttons for a popular story - action, romance, brotherhood, friendship, grey areas between right/wrong, suspense, intrigue, mystery, cool effects and varied bad guys. Not sure if I'm going to but his next as a hard cover, but knowing my discipline, I suspect I shall.


Possibble spoiler

Spoiler

Btw, what was this thing about fixing Little Chicago?