Malazan Empire: Boat People - Malazan Empire

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Boat People

#41 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 14 June 2007 - 04:48 PM

Imperial Historian;193677 said:

The new prologue has corrected dates when compared to the one we were initially given, the canoes were found in the last days of King Diskanar, ....


Oh thank GOD. That's close enuf. Even tho there's no way the end of MT happens before the end of MoI, but hey SE says timelines are flexible in real life, so why not... *blissful denial* -_-

And now i'm thinking the advanced prologue was deliberately altered to mess with us! :eek:

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#42 User is offline   Sloppyfresh 

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 12:42 AM

Its been a day and 2 posts... and nooone is gonna comment on my 1st post ever? (4 posts back) *crys a bit, refreshes page... crys some more* ... Comman! someone has to disagree with the Imass idea for the boat people.... annnnd no one has really touched on the 'boats not used yet' idea...

Ya! Thats right! Im complaining already! :morgoth:
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#43 User is offline   Danyah 

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 01:01 AM

WTF is wrong with you people!!! Abyss, it can't be the barghast, since they were still on Genabackis in the last days of Diskanar. The body, the body!!!!

I didn't know SE changed the timeline since the pre release of the prologue, so that would mean he checked on the timeline...

And Sloppy, read my comment on the Imass. I agree with you. Water is oblivion for the Imass, so they need boats to travel. The elder saw skeletons walking the plains at night. You found the solution to the boat problem. Happy now?
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#44 User is offline   Talamadas 

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 10:15 AM

500.000 T'lan Imass? OMG that is a huge fighting force.
As for T'lan Imass there already where T'lan Imass on Lether. If i remember it correctly it was a number like 4000. Yes they were lost because they had no bonecaster among them. But they could now have one which would explain the skeletons.

Another posibility is the old geezer was struck by dementia.

Back to the T'lan. I must admit that I had forgotten T'lan Imass couldn't travel over large bodies of water but still i dont see them as rowing type.
And the enormous number of 500.000 does discredit this theory. It is not like the T'lan procreated in the last 300.000 years. Their Armies were decimated in many ways such as the jaghut wars, Assail and so on.
If there were 500.000 running around wouldn't more have heeded the call of silverfox? Or wouldnt the tyrants of Assail get their asses kicked?
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#45 User is offline   Danyah 

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 10:48 AM

Well, there are several clans. Some bound by the throne, others lost. It's all quite vague...
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#46 User is offline   Dolorous Menhir 

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 10:53 AM

The T'lan Imass don't need boats people. Debate over.
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#47 User is offline   Imperial Historian 

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 11:24 AM

As dolorous said, the t'lan don't need boats, see lanas tog for an example, an imass who crossed the ocean from assail to genabackis, and more relevantly a specific quote from DhG:

"'It's said you can cross oceans,' the mage muttered... 'We can cross bodies of water,' the female acknowledged. 'But we can only find our shapes on land'" DhG, UK mmpb, p376-377

And I was fairly sure the skeletons in the night were just white-face barghast, the white-face would look rather like a skull in the night.

And for those still in doubt, the timeline doesn't matter, the timeline doesn't matter.
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#48 User is offline   Danyah 

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 01:20 PM

Ok then, case closed. Mixed up the moving in water and the oblivion in water thing.
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#49 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 01:55 PM

Plus time moves differently in warrens. The Edur body could have been in Mael's aquarium for pretty much any amount of time, including backwards.

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#50 User is offline   Danyah 

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 04:48 PM

The time in the sea moves backwards, eh? Well, no, that goes too far. If the timeline doesn't matter, don't try to fix itno matter what. -_-
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#51 User is offline   Ellestra 

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 10:07 PM

Danyah;193725 said:

OK, said this in another thread...

The last day of King Diskanar (exactly the last one), Mael sends Theradas Buhn to his realm, the big blue. Timelinewise, that body only could have turned up in Genabackis LATER on, for Paran and the BB's to find it while moving to Coral.

Iirc, the Barghast moved along with Broods army to Coral, so they couldn't have left on their prehistoric canoes until after Coral.

So Barghast landed before death Ezgara, while still marching with Brood (at the very best, could be fighting with Trotts, or amongst themselves for that matter).

So my top 3

On 3. The other barghast left with their entire nation for no good reason to Lether. White faces are the only ones to join Brood.

On 2. There's are some new players in the game we haven't heard of yet.

On 1. SE pulled a GoTMism. He admits regularly in interviews he messes up the timeline (he did in that last one, that's what he uses the forum for), and the canoes belong to the White Faces.

Oh and Abyss, I remember you calling "Timeline is not important, timeline is not important!!!"

What happened? Got a new addiction, next to brainz?


It bothers me too.
He messed the Timeline again.

Malazan Timeline is like one of those impossible figures that look plausible on paper but when you look closely it turns out the water flows upwards or stairs turn upside down.
Same thing is happens with time in MBotF.
I thought I had it worked out, despite Erikson’s constant mistakes with dates.
See here
And then came Reaper’s Gale.
In prologue we learn that a giant fleet lands just before fall of King Ezgara Diskanar and Rhuald taking the throne. Then we learn it was Baraghast fleet. The White Faces – the ones that learnt about their see faring heritage in MoI and then plan on going to rebuild the ships, learn how to sail. How could that be?
It’s not about the dates. In fact it doesn’t matter if any of this happen in 1159 or 1164 BS.
What it is about is the sequence of events, how they relate to one another, what comes after what. And I do mind.

In DhG when Gesler and co. find Silanda it’s been a while since Karsa killed Binadas and the rest. The ship looks bad.
Binadas was there to rescue Trull after shorning.
Trull was shorn soon after Rhuald took over the Lehterii Empire.
King Ezgara Diskanar died little bit earlier. All this is Past.
Now, DhG takes place simultaneously with MoI – so finding Silanda happens around the time or even before the Baraghast ships under Capustan are found.
After that Hetan and the rest of clans where at Coral and so was Tool.
So how they manage to assemble ships, learn to sail them, sail to Lether (it took a year for both Edur/Letheri and 14th fleets) and get there before the Edur overtaking the Empire?

The only answer I can think of is that they traveled back in time. Even traveling through warrens wouldn’t help and, unless Eres’al transported them, I see no sensible explanation.

And as I said this is without taking dates under consideration.
What about 943rd Day of Search as date of Trull’s shorning? I thought it took a Rhuald a bit longer to order this – not right after conquest.
When did they find time to create Silanda with all those not!dead Andii? They had to find Driff Avalli first.

It’s bit easier with Gray Swords – we don’t know how long after Edur conquest they die. Still I’m not happy.

I wish he’d made a scale with all these events sorted out – like map of timeline.

At least current events seem to happen is sensible time – it’s been a year since TBh – so it’s 1166 BS.
Wonder what happen with Paran in that year. Plenty of time for Toll of the Hounds to happen
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#52 User is offline   Dolorous Menhir 

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 10:14 PM

To be fair, it's not like this is the first instance of impossible time order. You can go all the way back to GotM and "Quick Ben as a priest of Shadow before he was a Bridgeburner, but after the Emperor was assassinated" for that.

You simply have to come to terms with the fact that some of the timings just don't work.
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#53 User is offline   ShadowOwl 

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 01:14 AM

The Silanda was from Drift Avali and the Andii on it were from there -they were sent to get help. In RG there is a mention by Nimander of trying to shield Phaed from seeing the ship and her mother's head. So they could have been sailing for a while. I have been telling myself the time incongruities are because of Shadow/KG. The warren is know to mess up time and being shattered, it is wandering all over. Perhaps anyone could be walking thru a bit and not know it - that could account for some time questions? Karsa's years with Leoman and Sha'ik in Raraku could have been within the whirlwind warren, which we now know was a piece of KG.
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