[amphibian]

Grumble;202073 said:

Vick is not even a top 10 pick from current QB's so no way is he going any higher than late 3rd early 4th round if you are building a team and picking from every player and position available.

He puts asses in the seats. At its core, the NFL is still a business.

[Grumble]

Face of a franchise ..... don't think so, more like public enemy no.1

[paladin]

i didnt say runners, i said mobile qbs.. favre is/was a mobile qb. the fact that he didnt run for big numbers doesnt reduce the fact that he is/was great at avoiding pressure and being an accurate passer while doing so. mcnabb is the same way nowadays. he will choose to pass instead of run when he has to scramble.

and given the right development, vick would have fit in well under a two back scheme similar to what jacksonville uses with drew/taylor. he has the speed and explosiveness to work as a scrappy speed back, but most likely he would have converted into a receiver like other college qbs(ward, matt jones, etc)

[McLovin]

Grumble;202061 said:

Can he hold for field goals ?

I would say the answer to that question is irrelevant, wouldn't you?

[Grumble]

True

[Oceao]

That's actually a really good idea. Imagine Vick in a third string qb role somewhere. Think of all the 2 point conversion options that would open up in the play book.

Of course, part of his training camp would have to be: Now you must fight these forty pit bulls to the death or face electrocution...

[Grumble]

Not sure everyone will agree .....

[Oceao]

yeah there's no way he could fend off that many pissed off dogs.
Vick is done.

[Grumble]

Sad news - The Great Bill Walsh passed away today.

Since discovering this great game in 1984 my early years of following the sport were dominated by the 49ers and their great coach Bill Walsh. It seemed his teams were always winning and always in the playoffs or Super Bowl. Credited with inventing the West Coast Offense the players and coaches Walsh inspired to greatness, too many to mention here,will surely stand as a reminder of the influence he has had on the game.

A sad day indeed.

[Oceao]

yeah that sucks.

well since one iconic coach has died, surely it would be appropriate to switch our collective focus over to Foxborough, where a living iconic coach dwells like a druidish curmudgeon, lurking in warren-like tunnels beneath gillette stadium - even through the entire off season, and then just sit in pathetic awe of what the pats look like on paper. right?

there are maybe six teams in the afc that i anticipate giving the pats a hard time, three of which are in their division.

I am not afraid of san diego.
I am not afraid of tha steelas.
I'm not really too concerned with the ravens.

Let's see the Bengals, Jaguars, and Titans.
Who am I forgetting?

oh yeah.

Well I'm not going to comment on them. Plus I heard their kicker is a sellout shit bag.

[amphibian]

Oceao;203109 said:

Well I'm not going to comment on them. Plus I heard their kicker is a sellout shit bag.

I believe Vinatieri was absolutely justified in leaving New England on his quest to get paid. If you're a Pats fan, you should forever revere him as an absolutely crucial part of the Patriots' success over the last few years. I do not think the Colts can repeat that stellar defensive performance this year, but that offense is still ridonkulous.

On pure talent alone, I believe the Chargers are the best team in the league. If McNair holds together, the Ravens could be a serious playoff contender. The Jags ain't bad, the Steelers need to show some offense and the Bengals are loving the stripes color scheme.

However, my "dark horse" is Denver - even if Al Wilson is no longer with the team, they're still pretty durned good.

[Oceao]

yeah don't worry about adam heh. he's revered eternally etc.

and shit i think my brain refused to think about denver. they are the number 1 contender for fucking up the pats. kansas city too could be some fun with holmes running and huard. god damn denver though. bah i need to look at the schedule tomorrow.

i suddenly wish we could have dillon around for another year or two.
the bengals will give teams some trouble, palmer is top notch. i just don't see the ravens doing much.

but the chargers? they're entire coaching program has been changed. rivers will throw for a career high number of pics while forced into trying to take pressure off a hobbling and unmotivated lt.

[Grumble]

The question for the Pats will be can they step up in the playoffs ..... what effect will Mr Moss have on the offense ( Me,Me,Me ) and is Maroney the workhorse back they need. The D should be strong but the secondary must stay healthy ..... of course if the QB goes down they are in big trouble.

[paladin]

Grumble;203261 said:

The question for the Pats will be can they step up in the playoffs ..... what effect will Mr Moss have on the offense ( Me,Me,Me ) and is Maroney the workhorse back they need. The D should be strong but the secondary must stay healthy ..... of course if the QB goes down they are in big trouble.

you give brady too much credit. he is not joe montana, peyton manning, or warren moon. he's ben roethlisberger and brad johnson. when brady has to throw more than 20-25 times to actually win a game, its not a good proposition. much like the others i mentioned, his job is to not lose the ball. i know matt cassell never threw a pass in college and has little if any time in the nfl, but he was good enough to be a qb at USC, which they get top prospects for, and was impressive enough in drills to be drafted without ever throwing a ball. as long as they have the running game and the defense(much like brady does), they will win 9-12 games year in and year out and make the playoffs where their defensive veterans can(and always seem) to make plays.

[amphibian]

paladin;203278 said:

you give brady too much credit. he is not joe montana, peyton manning, or warren moon. he's ben roethlisberger and brad johnson. when brady has to throw more than 20-25 times to actually win a game, its not a good proposition. much like the others i mentioned, his job is to not lose the ball. i know matt cassell never threw a pass in college and has little if any time in the nfl, but he was good enough to be a qb at USC, which they get top prospects for, and was impressive enough in drills to be drafted without ever throwing a ball. as long as they have the running game and the defense(much like brady does), they will win 9-12 games year in and year out and make the playoffs where their defensive veterans can(and always seem) to make plays.

Every Patriots starting linebacker is over 30. The safeties are unlikely to make it through a full season and Asante Samuel is holding out for more money.

Despite all of this, paladin is right - the Patriots will win 9 to 12 games this year and the next.

[paladin]

adalius thomas is 30, but i will venture to say that he was the single best free agent this year and the patriots signing him made their defense infinitely deeper and better because he can play tackle, end, olb, mlb, and ss

[Obdigore]

Maroney can hold up for a whole season.

I, too, am worried about the pats defense more then the offense.

I think Moss can be kept in line for a year or two, if the team is winning.

When he was in Minnesota, as long as he was getting the ball a couple of times a game, and they were putting lots of points up, he had no problems.

Hes just a whiney crybaby when his team is loosing.

[paladin]

the real question is can him and stallworth exist.. they are two of the same mold. at least in minnesota he had no real competition. here he has a little more..

[Oceao]

I don't think there will be any problems with moss and stallworth - none that will be detrimental to the team anyway. I'm sure there will be comp. between all of them, but the locker room will hold up. I'm actually kind of interested to see what effect the new additions could have on Reche Caldwell. If anyone really steps out of line they won't be around for long.

I'm still sort of in shock Moss is even in NE and the potential that it opens up if he's healthy. I've been a Moss fan for a while. I got a weird sense about the whole Doug Gabriel situation from last season (a WR from the raiders that didn't last long with the pats). I mean he was friends with Moss in Oakland - something happened there I think. I didn't follow it real closely, and that's about all I can say.

It is sort of rare to see anything non professional on the ne sideline, except Brady stomping around and screaming when they're down. I remember a bout of fisticuffs between McGinnest and Izzo a few years ago - but my point is, there is a line that isn't messed with without steep consequences.

Obdigore prolly knows more about Maroney than I do, and it'd be great to see him for a whole season.

As for defense, which is more fun than offense anyway -
I think Samuel will be there, but even if he's not, Hobbs is only going to get better, and the rest of the DBs have been in the system for a while now. Losing Scott sucks, but Gay was hurt for most of last season and if he, Hawkins, Sanders etc. are healthy - not to mention Meriweather, their depth back there is alright. Wilson is prolly in a contract year too, I dunno. There's an old man that lurks there too with a cane named Rodney Harrison who can still win at bingo and stuff.

The linebackers are middle towards old. The pats defense is most vulnerable against the run up the middle and inside the box. Last season I was very surprised Seau did as well as he did, and if he's back, it might be alright. Add Thomas, and I think their age and lost speed (specifically Bruschi's) might be moot, but this really depends on whether or not the coaching staff can cook up enough NEW looks and shifts etc.

On the D line, Seymour will do better and Wilfork is a house. Green and Warren had great years. Maybe put a few more wheels under Wilfork to make a devastating mobile home and take some pressure off the lbs and it could be fun.

edit - actually as a follow up to my fear of the broncos - are there any Denver fans here? What's going on / what's the sense? Travis Henry?

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I just don't know if Moss is going to be that much of a factor. He always relied on his speed rather than good route running to get open, and I'm sure he's lost a step or two. He'll contribute, but I don't expect any breakout season. I've been wrong in the past though.