[Father Light]

I will be bitterly disappointed if either rake or ruin bite it anytime b4 book 10.

[vaiski]

I'll be surprised if one of them doesn't.

[Mael]

That was quite a nice read. I am sure that Kilmadaros is the god of the Assail. After all it would make sense for her "children" to enter a chaotic warren to "bring peace" to its waring occupants (and kill a few dragons in the process).

I think the rider at the end is definatly a member of the half million who landed 2 years before the conquest of lether based on his description of all the other races of the letherii continent from what seems to me like a foreigners perspective (and he states that he crossed swords with all of them for some reason over the past few years). The canoe's are barghast in style, much like the ones found in memories of ice and probably contain the light wooden weapons like the ones found in the aformentioned book. I think the rider is a Barghast/fenn/toblakai offshoot or even moranth (based on the red mask color, like the green, black or golden moranth, and the fact that they are also related to the barghast).

I believe the riders companions are K'chain Chemale which would be interesting if there was a branch of the moranth/barghast people that were partnered with them (it wouldn't make the moranth a far off assumption since the genebackan moranth already ride large prehistoric dragonflys that no one has seen anywhere else).

As for the foreign bodies he finds...they are Parish grey helms and i'm assuming thier hearts were eaten by the Jeck.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Reaper said:

Foreigners. Here, in the land of his birth.
Behind the mask, he scowled. Gone. Too long. Am I now the stranger?

Red Mask was not one of the half-million on the boats. He's a native of Awl'Dan. That also implies he's not a Moranth, since they live on Genebackis.

[Mael]

Quote

Foreigners. Here, in the land of his birth.
Behind the mask, he scowled. Gone. Too long. Am I now the stranger?

Red Mask was not one of the half-million on the boats. He's a native of Awl'Dan. That also implies he's not a Moranth, since they live on Genebackis.

dammit...i read it twice and still missed that. thx for the correction. wonder who he is.

[Kurt Montandon]

Hetan;156833 said:

More like Grey Swords - the large number of women among them?
It would make more sense for the wolves to eat the hearts of servants to Togg and Fanderay... even if the Grey Helms (perish) serve them as well.

... wait, shouldn't you already know the answer?

Anyways, it doesn't make sense for them to be Grey Swords, if they arrived in those boats seen earlier - the timeline doesn't add up. So I'm thinking Perish.

[Mael]

Quote

More like Grey Swords - the large number of women among them?
It would make more sense for the wolves to eat the hearts of servants to Togg and Fanderay... even if the Grey Helms (perish) serve them as well.

ya don't you know the answer already?

As stated in the prologue, the foreign bodies had the sigil of Togg and Fandarey on thier coat of arms, much like the Parish do, which is why the wolves (jeck?) ate thier hearts. Also, rememeber that the leader of the Parish in BH was a woman and it would also stand to reason that thier legion would contain many women due to the nature of thier god(s) and the fact that the male patron of thier hold was lost for several thousand years. It could also be noted that someone saying "so many women" could just mean more women then usual for a standing army, as opposed to meaning the majority of the force was women. A person could cross a malazan battlefield and note the disproportionate amount of women compared to other armies aswell.

Also, the grey swords were initially sworn to fener, not T&F. After the events of MoI i believe that most of the remaining grey swords (mostly women) ended up sworn to Treach with Gruntle. It was the survivors of the Panion domin that ended up sworn to T&F.

Another interesting sidenote; It was stated in BH that the leader of the Perish was a very large woman, meaning that it is possible that the perish are an offshoot of the Toblakai much like the barghast or Fenn. We weren't really introduced to any other perish so thats all i have to go on.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Just because the dead army seem to have been Togg & Fanderay worshippers does not mean they are the Perish.

True, there are no spare Destriants etc to lead a third group, but that doesn't automatically mean these people are the Perish.

[Abyss]

Dolorous Menhir;156868 said:

...True, there are no spare Destriants etc to lead a third group, but that doesn't automatically mean these people are the Perish.

Assuming there is in fact a hard and fast rule that it's only one Destriant per god max, that doesn't mean there cannot be an aspirant (along the lines of Heboric or Rath'Fener who both seemed to have close ties to their god even tho' someone else was Destriant) acting as a relative direct channel.

Hood has Talamanadasas in MoI. Soliel had the naked girl in TB. Cotillion has all kinds of agents running around asking for his help every time things get a little too tough. No reason Togg and Futomaki can't have another agent guiding the force in question, whomever they were/are.

- Abyss, all about the wolf goddess sushi.

[Mael]

Quote

Just because the dead army seem to have been Togg & Fanderay worshippers does not mean they are the Perish.

True, there are no spare Destriants etc to lead a third group, but that doesn't automatically mean these people are the Perish.

This is true although being perish would seem to fit with the general idea of the Perish bringing the adjuncts army to Alw'dan. Especially if the perish were already there. Also, the fact that there was a dead caster doesn't necessarily mean it was a destriant. I would assume that the perish, much like the malazans, Letherii, dogslayers, etc, would have mage/priest support in thier armies (and its obvious that the perish have some powerful magical capabilities based on thier ritual).

Also, weren't the persih in BH described as having fair features (pale skin, blond/red hair, grey eyes)?

[Saccian]

Personally I don't think the group is anyone we've met yet, mostly due to the timelines. The Perish should have still been on seven cities two years before the Edur conquest and I don't think the Grey Swords would have found any reason to lead half a million(if they even have those numbers, I don't recall) to Lether at this point in the story(although I still don't think they were set up yet by this point).

The origins of the Red Mask fella confuses me as well, so I'm looking forward to the Book showing me the way.

[S Ruin]

Responding to the comment that rake is going to die - Could someone explain to me how that will be accomplished?

How exactly could you kill rake? Wont his soul just be released from his flesh and find another being to possess. Ruin could not be killed outright, scabandari said so himself in midnight tides "Aye, I cannot kill you outright - you are too powerful for that". Scabandari himself after his body was killed by Kilimandaros, his soul got trapped in the finnest. Soul taken dragons are different from real dragons in that sense.

So I find it hard to see who or what will kill rake - if they get their hands on draginpur and use that he will just be trapped like draconus in the sword and since we know the sword will be shattered, then he will find his way out again.

Regarding the killing of Scabandari by kilimandaros, Gothos did mention that death was denied because of the ritual taking place on the land. So maybe a sole taken can be killed, who knows?

But this is rake we are talking about. People seem to forget that rake actually killed draconus and by all accounts draconus was I think as powerful as Krul. They seemed of equal powers from the little we have read of them - who in the whole series do you think can actually have the power to take down Krul in his hay day.

The only thing that freaks me out is that Kallor did mention in one of his earlier posts that Malcalypse was pissed off with Reaper's Gale because a very major character was killed off - So I have been having nightmares since that it might be rake. Could be Icarium he was refering to so who knows. Hopefully it is not because I think Rake is kallor's favourite as well so he would have been pissed off also but he seems to really like the book.

In summary, If SE should kill rake, I will drop dead

[Monoch Ochem]

@ S Ruin: start making funeral plans amigo...just in case.

Those women seem very much like Grey Swords to me. I agree with Hetan that the wolves may have eaten their hearts on Togg and Fanderay's behalf... perhaps in a similar way to Fener collecting hands.

As for multiple Destriants, that doesn't necessarily need to be the case. Karnadas' warren was Denul and he channelled it through other Grey Swords in MoI. He told one of them, when they went out to hunt the KCCM, that they could draw upon his warren if needed. That may have been the case with the woman who was burned by the mage-fire.

As for Dragnipur shattering...it took Draconus, the previous owner, and not even his draconean blood shattered it. Why do we think Rake dying would?

[Dragnipurake]

i think he was just referring to the impending destruction of dragnipur. anyway, its interesting to know what would happen if rake is killed with dragnipur: two gates within the sword? or can he come out of the gate within?

[S Ruin]

Shhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I was afraid of this - SE is really going to kill Rake off isnt he? I have been reading the forums on this website for years now and thats the impresion I get from some very credible members - oh well.

Hey Monoch, Draginpurake was right. I did not mean Rake's draconean blood will shatter Draginpur. I was just saying that if that was how rake will be killed then he will get out sooner or later due to the sword being shattered.

I dont know if I am just being foolish and missing the obvious but how exacly will you kill a sole taken Dragon like rake with finality?

[Dolorous Menhir]

We've seen dragons die in the books, and many Soletaken die. Rake is both of those and other things, but I don't see how any of those qualities make it impossible to kill him.

edit: note that Andarist died, so I don't see his status as direct child of Mother Dark being important.

[S Ruin]

You are making vaild points Dolorius. As you said, dragons and sole taken die but not sole taken dragons. We know Dragons die but they are not sole taken so hence the whole argument of gothos trapping Blood eye's soul n the finnest and bloodeye not being able to kill Silchas outright. Were I see your point is that soletaken's have been killed before like the soletaken bear that Karsa killed so maybe you are right.

As for Andarist, we all know he has foresaken his draconean blood (if he ever had any) or else he wll have wooped those edur on drift avali so you really cannot compare rake and andarist.