[Folken]

it is described as an object...Icarium is not an object.

But Hetan's removal of posts got rid of a point I made earlier.

MT - Osserc is battle torn after a battle with Rake. He said he "slowed" him down.

RG - Rake has not yet fought him apparently.

So, why did they fight at a later time? Or could this be a mishap?

[Murrin]

Hmm. Kilmandaros the giant half-ape half-Forkrul Assail? And she defended Kurald Emurlahn, then helped it die.


Timelines. The Perish have followed Togg and Fanderay for a long time. They knew Tavore would come with her fleet at least two years in advance. And now, an entire army of Perish appear from nowhere in the Awl'dan to be slaughtered, then have their hearts taken by wolves... Too much of a coincidence. The canoes sound like Barghast, even down to the hollowed out ends, but where else could the Perish in the Awl'dan have come from? An army, hidden for more than four years. An army whose souls, I presume, were taken by wolves; and as mentioned above, in a way reminiscent of Togg's escape from Toc.

And finally:

Quote

"You two," Hood said, turning away, "are worse than advocates. And you don't want to know what I do with the souls of advocates."

Does Hood meet Telorast and Curdle? Heh.


Edit:

Quote

But I would think that this unknow red-masked fellow would recognize them as wolves instead of 'beasts' if they really were T & F

He did say wolves were the ones who came to the battlefield and ate the hearts. He referred to his companions as beasts, and it was those 'beasts' he thought might follow and kill the Letherii. His friends sound like demons.

[Sir Thursday]

I thought that maybe RedMask's dread companions were the Korvalhrai (or was it Kennryll'ah? I can never remember) noble demons that were sent after the Fork'rul Assail in Midnight Tides...if their footsteps sound like drumbeats, it is definately not Korbal Broach and Bauchelain.

It is probably more likely that we are going to be introduced to another new character set though...which is annoying if you are trying to speculate.

Sir Thursday

[tiam]

potsherds;109123 said:

^ Not a good comparision for ascendacny and godhood.
Rul is making an arguement in logic:

Gods => Ascendants
Ascendants !=> Gods
The above are not equal statements. There is a causal relationship, so to speak. I like what someone else said: SE used the least common denominator in that sentence.

('Sherds loves her math, yes she does. )

Also, Hetan, you make a good point, why does Kilmandaros have to look exactly like her children. Convinces me even more that she's their goddess.

Good question about what exactly is mean by her children falling astray... I like the idea that its their decision to no longer be arbiters, but to enforce the peace.

Yeh i think they lost their purpose of adjudicator. I posted it a few pages back.

Neway i think given her bulk that she may be the TT ascendent (i know shes a god but the way Scabby is for the edur, Rake for Andii etc...) seen as she has odd joints but seems to be a lumbering behemoth. Also i dont reckon that she is a draconian eleint. Because of her size shes mentioned at being 15 feet wide (average pure TT height) therefore wouldnt need a soletaken form. maybe thats the inconsistency that Pallor syas is in this copy of the Draconian family tree

[Murrin]

Kilmandaros is almost certainly related to Forkrul Assail. Pale skin. Multi-jointed limbs. Fights with her hands. Her children have lost their way? Look at what the Forkrul spend all their time doing on Wu--bringing judgement and balance through indiscriminate slaughter.
The differences are obvious: she is big where they are human-sized; she is ape-like where they have an eery physically-perfect visage. But she shares features with the Forkrul where the only similarities with other species is their being humanoid.


Oh, and there's an inconsistency. In MT there was mention of Scabby's head being crushed by a mailed fist. Kilmandaros' hands were bare in this scene.

[polishgenius]

It could be the demons you refer to, Thursday, but tbh I didn't get the impression they were bloodthirsty 'kill for fun' types.
I like the idea of a couple of rouge K'Chaine Che'malle, the description we get does make sense and it'd be good to see some take a major place in the narrative other than just 'faceless enemy hordes', especially since we know they're a sentient species but we haven't got any hint of personalities from them yet.
Wild speculation is fun!

Murrin - there's no hint though that the Perish had been there for any significant time before they died, they could have just arrived. Plus, they don't travel in canoes. Still, they could have accuired old Barghast canoes from somewhere too, especially since there's no reason Barghast would put weapons in their boats if they knew they were going to use them.
Half a million Perish/Greyswords: Run away!

Tiam - the TT had ascendants, remember? Iron Bars killed them.
And now they seem to be getting a shiny new one.

[Sir Thursday]

Murrin;109164 said:

Oh, and there's an inconsistency. In MT there was mention of Scabby's head being crushed by a mailed fist. Kilmandaros' hands were bare in this scene.

I'm guessing the Edur just assumed that it was a mailed fist - I don't think they would really believe that an unmailed fist could do the damage that they see on Scabandari's skull...

Sir Thursday

[Orfantal]

Wow .. intriguing prologue as always. Loved seeing Kilmandaros, and getting a glimpse of the killing of Scabby. Definitely want to find out what Gothos wanted to do with his soul, and if he still has him. In my opinion the link between Kilmandaros and the FA seems quite likely, given the similarities, and her antiquity. It's hard to think who else might be her children, and they don't have to be identical. Toblakai seem the only other alternative, and the scattered nature of their descendants might fit the idea of being lost. The only other being the fact that they're termed "stolid menhirs" and K has a real feel of being an earth goddess... perhaps pre Burn. Didn't Raest indicate that Burn was a "new" goddess and it's possible that K ws one of the elder gods killed by the Fall.

The other thing I found strange was her willingness to support Kurald Emerlahn - why would she be so concerned, when other gods don't seem to be.

Plus what's happenng with the dragons! Weren't there about a dozen in the list that the T'lan Imass in Midnight Tides reeled off. Now we find that half a dozen are dead .. if they're all linked to warrens like Sorrit then what effect has this had. Interesting that we see 3 surviving dragons flying off, weren't there 3 using the Azath to travel in Deadhouse Gates. Rake's use of the phrase "feral" dragons is interesting..wonder if he calls Silannah feral

[Illuyankas]

Kilmandaros states her reasoning in the prologue, and I copied the passage earlier in the thread.

As for the list of dragons, it's likely that the list from MT was compliled after this event, although seeing as the Imass leader saw himself as flesh, perhaps not...

Good to see the 'noble' dragons getting their asses kicked wholesale, there's too many of the sods flying around. They're dimensional midges, I tell you! Annoyances on a pancosmic scale!

[Orfantal]

Illuyankas;109189 said:

Kilmandaros states her reasoning in the prologue, and I copied the passage earlier in the thread.

It's not so much her reasons I was questioning, they make sense. But why was noone else helping her. Mael certainly seemed disinterested, yet we've seen Elder Gods working together before. K'rul, Draconus and SOCN to take out Kallor, Kilmandaros and Mael to take out Scabby. Seems a bit miserly to leave Kilmandaros to take on all comers in Emurlahn.

[Dark Mac]

I don't think that the two dread companions are KCCM. For one, the KCCM we saw in MoI weren't strong enough to take out an entire army with only two of them present. And secondly, the KCCM are drones of the Matron, not really individual entities. I doubt that they would take pleasure in killing. I could definitely see them being two representatives of the threat on Assail though. Assail's denizens certainly take pleasure in killing, and are among the most powerful creatures in the world.

[fortyseven]

Adding my ARGHHHHH

I liked the boiled crab comment Kilma is one mad/bitter goddess. She's most likely KA.

[zeeny]

Here's a crazy theory for you:
Kil related to the FA.
Kettle link with the FA.
Kallor ==> You'd be surprised who's in Kettle(I believe he posted something like that on the opinion thread, although I'm suddenly unable to find it, so may have been a dream of mine?)
Insane out of nowhere conclusion:
Kil is the one into Kettle.

PS: Yeah, I know she isn't as the FA's been named, but I'd have liked a godess into a child's body....

[Wry]

Hmmm.... A coupla things:

Gothos and the Finnest - I never really understood why Icarium trying to free gothos from the Azath resulted in wounding KE... Maybe the fact that Gothos had Scabby's soul (and therefore the azath may have had it too) is what caused it. MAybe gothos used the finnest to tempt an azath to grow and so imprison him. Or something lol

The canoes at the end: Ok so in MOI the Barghast found their shamans and learn of their seafaring past. i vaguely recall mention that they'd now re-learn those lost skills. and wasn't there mention of other lost groups of ancient barghast? So maybe after MOI they all went off a voyaging, half a million seems a plausable number for total barghast on Genabackis. Does the timeline match up? I dunno.

When i first heard of the guy in the mask i was thinking of the Moranth... remember how they pulled out of the war and kinda dissappeared, and they like colours, and they were once riding the waves on barghast canoes... perhaps it was them then.

Just slight wonderings... and yeay to seeKillamad-whats-her-name at last!

EDIT: Just read the first page, all the above was mentioned by quicker people. Sorry lol

[Hume]

So who is it that cutter 'risked awakening' on Drift avali then now ?
As the popular thoery was that Scabbies soul was on there, but that quite possible may not be the case now..

[Lord of Salvation]

Could the 2 have been those Demon kings from KE, the two brothers chasing after Serenity?

Also who are the 3 dragons seen fleeing the murder sight?

Do you think that anyone escaped from Rake and Kil's purgery? What are feral dragons like, full sized?

Also in MoI the grey cloaks were almost all women because of the recruits and revamping of the ranks, so it is probably them since there were "so man women" with missing hearts, maybe its Fanderays thing to do.

[Coldnight]

Wry said:

Hmmm.... A coupla things:

Gothos and the Finnest - I never really understood why Icarium trying to free gothos from the Azath resulted in wounding KE... Maybe the fact that Gothos had Scabby's soul (and therefore the azath may have had it too) is what caused it. MAybe gothos used the finnest to tempt an azath to grow and so imprison him. Or something lol

My theory:
The only reason why killing an Azath House might result in shattering of Emurlahn is that this particular house was shadow aspected. The warren was already deadly wounded, so that might be enogh. Note, that events from RG prologue take place before Icarium has done whatever he has done to the Azath House because Gothos is still free. It's possible that Gothos went willingly into shadow aspected Azath House to deposit the finnest with Scabby's soul and guard it there (don't ask me why). It might also be like Wry said: Gothos wanted new Azath to grow on the finnest (this way the house would also be aspected to shadow). He got cought himself by accident, or knew it woud happen but didn't care (paraphrasing Rake: nothing better to do today ). Anyway some time later Icarium started to miss his daddy ... and BANG! The question is: what happened to finnest after that?