[Tiste Simeon]

Wow... Finally got around to reading it. I finished my 4th readthrough of the entire series, so I thought it fitting to read it now.

And I kind of curse my decision for I now have more questions. Such as "Who are Kilamandros' children?" "Who are the soldiers who landed at Drene, and are they the same as the dead ones at the end? Are they, in fact, Malazans? Greymane's lot?" "What is Gothos going to do with the Finnest?" and finally" How is it that despite only being in the text for a few line, Anomander Rake is still immeasurably cooler than anyone else?"

Too many things - and I have to wait til April? CURSES!

Thanks Patch, you are a legend and I love you in a non-gay way.

[ASAGO]

well now that is done (BH) i guess I will order night of knives by ossleton and while i wait fro that i am going to start over this will be my fifth time reading these books alot of pages put togeather.

[Tiste Simeon]

Do you mean Esslemont? Night of Knives is a great book, and it certainly helps you understand a few things that go on in the Bonehunters.

[Monoch Ochem]

Know what, reread MT. The Onyx wizards were defeated but it doesn't quite say that they were eradicated. They were the ones that led the survivors of the Edur betrayal and used their sorcery (underdeveloped sorcerors as they were) to hide the survivors from the hunting Edur. They seem poised for some act of vengeance though.. Alrhada said something in TB that they weren't as dimished as people thought they were. Maybe they're joining in the convergence on Lether...I mean, I know they're already there but I'm referring (as always) to that mother of all conflagrations. Maybe the Edur will be the ones defending Letheras like the Letherii did. And the besiegers? An alliance of some sort: the Barghast, Grey Helms, Grey Swords, Fourteenth, Blue Rose.

It's all shaping up to be another story of how a tyrant was deposed.

[tiam]

I dont think it would matter. I think we can agree Edur sorcery is stronger than Letherii (bar the Ceda) and the Letherii beat even the Onyx wizards of blue rose. They may still be useful in a co alition though liked youve mentioned

[ASAGO]

when does reapers gale come out

[Monoch Ochem]

tiam;148338 said:

I think we can agree Edur sorcery is stronger than Letherii (bar the Ceda)

Not so sure if that's written in stone Tiam. I think Lether's greatest problem was overconfidence. They wove rituals across the entire battlefield and I think if the rituals weren't shattered by those 2 key mages falling from the towers to their deaths, they would have stood a chance. Bad as it was, they still managed to incinerate one K'risnan and launch that attack on the Edur camp, killing 3 Edur witches. Whatever caused the Keep's flanking towers to collapse proved decisive. They may well have held out in time for the Ceda to trap the demon. Had that happened, a Letherii victory would have been certain.

I think the sorcerers in Janal's cadre were unprepared and likely overconfident as well. Laerdas and the other surviving sorceress didn't seem prepared for the demon that rose in their midst... Even after it killed the sorceror, she was able to kill one K'risnan as well...and the other was nearly crippled. She was launching attack, after attack on some distant enemy (presumably the K'risnan).

In fact, I think that if there was a full unveiling like the attack they first launched, the Edur sorcery may well have been completely checked. At least, it would have proved too costly in wraiths, demons and K'risnan for the Edur to persist.

[Tiste Simeon]

ASAGO said:

when does reapers gale come out

March/April this year.

As for the Edur sorcery vs everyone else - it was an elder spirit that took out two of the greatest sorcerors in the Letherii emrpire. That think needed an elder God, the Ceda and a Jaghut to take it down. If that had been taken out earlier, the stakes would have been very different...

[Monoch Ochem]

It wasn't Elder TS. It was an old river spirit that came into existence from tribal worship. I later moved to the sea but suffered and nearly died but for Mael creating those dolmen to preserve the existence of such forgotten entities.

But you're right. Arahathan and Nekal Bara would have certainly made a big difference at Brans Keep but I wonder if their sacrifice wasn't necessary for the Ceda to grasp the depth of the predicament posed by the demon. I definitely believe that Lether still could have overcome the sorcery. It would seem that collapsing towers won't stop Nekal Bara.

I think I finally now realise why the Ceda said "the seas must be freed. It's as simple as that." The CG's magic twisted the K'risnan as it came from Rhulad's sword through them. At Brans Keep however, it was Hanan Mosag's ritual that created the main assault. The CG's magic was channelled through the sea demon chained to Hanan Mosag. With that buffer, he could have wielded the CG's magic for much longer without being destroyed in the process (unlike the K'risnan). Hence why the Ceda said that the problem was not singular. The demon had to be eliminated to make HM more vulnerable to the effects of the devastating power he was using...which is what happened in the Eternal Domicile. Otherwise, they would be at too great a disadvantage.

I bet the CG's still twisting the Edur warlocks in a similar way to the K'risnan because of his aspect...to make them broken, deformed objects. Those Edur that QB/Bottle/Eres contested certainly suffered for the cause.

[Tiste Simeon]

Oh you're completely right. I just thought that as the Spirit had much more power than the two mages then it would be anelder power. But of course, it's power came from the CG. I bow to your superior wisdom in these things.

And of course the CG is twisting his servants to malform them. It is his nature and aspect. He wants all his subjects to be flawed... His power comes with a terrible price (as he explained to the merchant at the beginning of MOI. )

[wanton78]

sounds to me like the soldiers from perish or some similar faction of the grey helms (bonehunters pg 713?)

[Battalion]

Does any one know why Kallor is the Reaver in the House of Chains?

I thought he was offered the post of King.

Sorry if I stumbled off the beaten track.

[Dolorous Menhir]

There's a question mark after that in the the glossary, I think. Kallor's position is not clear.

[Battalion]

Thanks. I like his character and was wondering what direction it was heading. I'd like to see him fight Rulad.

[ASAGO]

Thank you Kallor, A question do you or anybody else know where i can get night of knives by esslemont

[Monoch Ochem]

Well it's available on amazon.co.uk: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/search...gb-en-google-21

[sarlinspellweaver]

That was brilliant - cheers Kallor.

I am definitely going to have to re-read the books though, I've got myself into Tad Williams, George R. R. Martin and a whole host of academic stuff since last reading them, and I've just realised that I'm forgetting my Tiste Edurs from my Tiste Andiis - how embarassing.

[Monoch Ochem]

@ Swordbearrer: the canoes are Barghast indeed but they're probably from Capustan.. the ones underneath the council building that were uncovered.

The soldiers seem like Grey Helms (mostly women and Togg and Fanderay's emblem). They probably hail from Coral. something tells me that Rake may have had a hand in their getting there. Rake may be holding himself in reserve/readiness for something....perhaps Rhulad.

Today's suspicion from my wellspring of bitterness is that Rake will be killed in RG...something to do with Kallor and Rhulad. OUR Kallor did say that a LOT of characters die in the next book.

[Battalion]

Monoch Ochem;155260 said:

@ Swordbearrer: the canoes are Barghast indeed but they're probably from Capustan.. the ones underneath the council building that were uncovered.

The soldiers seem like Grey Helms (mostly women and Togg and Fanderay's emblem). They probably hail from Coral. something tells me that Rake may have had a hand in their getting there. Rake may be holding himself in reserve/readiness for something....perhaps Rhulad.

Today's suspicion from my wellspring of bitterness is that Rake will be killed in RG...something to do with Kallor and Rhulad. OUR Kallor did say that a LOT of characters die in the next book.

I'd be pretty gutted if he was killed in the next book, man. I wanna see him have a fight with Osserc first, and I wanna see him have a rematch with Draconus. And the rest of the Hounds. And the Seguli Sixth. And another thing, if he dies, and the sword is shattered in the process, there's going to be a shit load of dudes freed from within with bad attitudes and worse ideas.