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Karsa as a character? Inspired or pointless drivel?
#61
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Posted 21 August 2006 - 06:33 PM
So Karsa is going to be up to more badassery in RG. Shock horror.
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#62
Abyss
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Posted 21 August 2006 - 06:50 PM
I rather like the notion that having forcibly inducted Karsa into the HoC, the CG is now stuck with him.
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#63
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Posted 21 August 2006 - 07:00 PM
hmm good point 'byss...
Does Karsa "know" that Rhulad is supposed to be the King in Chains? :Erm:
'Your majesty, please excuse my while I attempt to lop your head off with this big flint sword'
Does Karsa "know" that Rhulad is supposed to be the King in Chains? :Erm:
'Your majesty, please excuse my while I attempt to lop your head off with this big flint sword'
#64
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Posted 21 August 2006 - 09:13 PM
I'm betting Rhulad knows, or would recognize Karsa and being of the same House... Silgar and Bidithal did. It's just that Karsa doesn,t care.
Throw in 'Sibale and i think he's killed more of the CG's HoC than the rest of the Malazan world combined.
- Abyss, talk about chopping down the corporate ladder.
Throw in 'Sibale and i think he's killed more of the CG's HoC than the rest of the Malazan world combined.
- Abyss, talk about chopping down the corporate ladder.
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#66 Guest_chani_*
Posted 22 August 2006 - 03:34 PM
Abyss;107827 said:
I'm betting Rhulad knows, or would recognize Karsa and being of the same House... Silgar and Bidithal did.
I think that's making the assumption that Rhulad knows himself or looks at his position as being of the house. Maybe he wouldn't know at all - he's so delusional - maybe he really thinks he's in charge when he's not on the CG's isle - he's vunerable and weak there and not quite 'aware' of reality when he's back. I think he could miss this level of control entirely - thinking perhaps that it starts and ends with the sword - when really the level of control goes much futher than that - as a postion in a god's house impies.
I'm not too sharp on MT - as it's the one book I haven't done a reread of yet, but does Rhulad know specifically that it's the CG he's been chained to by the sword? (heh, chained to..
. Does he think even in terms of holds? He didn't seem to be the most spirtual person before, and his position doesn't seem to be one of questionning his role - more that he's just moving forward - thinking his schemes are his own, thinking the power is his own. Even if he's brought down low on the aisle when he confronts the CG. I'm also not sure he's got the same perspective as someone who's had so much 7c experience, like Karsa, and who's used to the intervention of the whole pantheon by now - whereas we didn't see nearly as much open interference in the Letherii storyline - it was much more subtle and the 'regular' characters (of course - this is SE's version of 'regular' - as in, not ascended) don't seem to be a openly aware of the gods meddling in their affairs. IMO at least... I can think of plenty of interference that happened, it just seemed that the Letherii line had less of the blatant activity that the other location's storylines did. Or that people weren't as aware of the interferance there. The Edur especially didn't seem to show much behavior relating to the pantheon in that way. They seem to think that they're in control. heh.
#67
Aptorian
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Posted 22 August 2006 - 04:16 PM
That is one of the most expected revelations in Reapers Gale. Wether Rhulad is full blown insane now or if he in fact has become the intelligent ruler of his people, that he showed the potential to be in his conversations with Udinaas.
In the Prologue to HoC he seems "evil" but not insane, rather scheming, trying to supres all old ideas of the Edur, making them his servants.
While in the end of MT he seems to have gone straight of the edge after the betrayal by his brothers.
One would suggest that like Karsa he is not content to be a puppet, gaining more and more arcane knowledge of the world, while the other would suggest that he is frail minded and easily used by both the CG and Hanan Mosag.
I'm guessing it's somewhere in between.
In the Prologue to HoC he seems "evil" but not insane, rather scheming, trying to supres all old ideas of the Edur, making them his servants.
While in the end of MT he seems to have gone straight of the edge after the betrayal by his brothers.
One would suggest that like Karsa he is not content to be a puppet, gaining more and more arcane knowledge of the world, while the other would suggest that he is frail minded and easily used by both the CG and Hanan Mosag.
I'm guessing it's somewhere in between.
#68
Abyss
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Posted 22 August 2006 - 04:40 PM
Rhulad meets and chats with the CG every time he dies. And, as we see when he discusses flooding the Nascent, he's got knowledge from the CG that even the Warlock-King doesn't have.
In any event, it's not explicit, yet Silgar and Bidithal both express to Karsa that they are allied to him, so it would appear that the knowledge isn't a secret amongst the House.
Now whether Karsa cares is a different story....
Rhulad: I know you! We are as brothers.
Karsa: Hail brother. *hacks Rhulad in half*
Rhulad: Heehee, I cannot stay dead, our mutual lord and benefactor has...
Karsa: *hack, hack, hack*
Rhulad: Hey, that still hurts y'know...
Karsa: *hack, slash, shred, stomp, stomp, burn, sautée, chew, excrete*
Chained God: Oh, bloody *#$*!
- Abyss, yes, "chew, excrete"...
In any event, it's not explicit, yet Silgar and Bidithal both express to Karsa that they are allied to him, so it would appear that the knowledge isn't a secret amongst the House.
Now whether Karsa cares is a different story....
Rhulad: I know you! We are as brothers.
Karsa: Hail brother. *hacks Rhulad in half*
Rhulad: Heehee, I cannot stay dead, our mutual lord and benefactor has...
Karsa: *hack, hack, hack*
Rhulad: Hey, that still hurts y'know...
Karsa: *hack, slash, shred, stomp, stomp, burn, sautée, chew, excrete*
Chained God: Oh, bloody *#$*!
- Abyss, yes, "chew, excrete"...
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#69
Aptorian
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Posted 22 August 2006 - 05:02 PM
Then the little puddle of poo melts together to Rhulad-1000 and the fight continues until Karsa pushes the big blob of edur and coins into a pool of lava yelling: Hasta lavista, babyedur.
#70
Onos
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Posted 22 August 2006 - 05:05 PM
Do we know where the CGs island is? What happens if Rhulad is killed on the island? I would guess he stays dead then. Not convinced he could be killed otherwise. (Dragnipur could do it or killed Rhulad could break the sword somehow) Anyway key is finding that island.
#71
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Posted 22 August 2006 - 05:13 PM
Question is if that Island was a part of the CG's personal warren or if it was an actual place on Wu.
If the island is on Wu I doubt it even exists any longer. Withal was staying there and of course Rhulad kept landing there when he died. But after mael payed it a visit, Mael probably flooded the place.
If it is a part of the CGs warren getting acces to it isn't quite as easy.
Break the sword and Rhulad doesn't come back, I don't think there's any other solution. Besides eating him or burning him to miniscule ashparticles, yummy.
If the island is on Wu I doubt it even exists any longer. Withal was staying there and of course Rhulad kept landing there when he died. But after mael payed it a visit, Mael probably flooded the place.
If it is a part of the CGs warren getting acces to it isn't quite as easy.
Break the sword and Rhulad doesn't come back, I don't think there's any other solution. Besides eating him or burning him to miniscule ashparticles, yummy.
#72 Guest_chani_*
Posted 22 August 2006 - 05:28 PM
Not sure where this is mentioned, but isn't it implied that the CG's isle is an actual floating island - a real physical place - and that the CG's warren is actually his tent? I think maybe QB mentions that somewhere - that his power's extended only to the walls of his tent - which is why he made the attempt to grab his acorn and run in MOI. He didn't quite make it, but it seemed that was his plan. I got the sense that the CG was using the floating island to keep his tent - and his warren - in a randomized location...
there's been so much build up of Karsa and Rhulad as sword fighters - what are we all going to think if the big confrontation between the two of them DOESN'T even happen? What if they join up together? Could Iccy be enough to take them both down? And wouldn't the best person to defeat Rhulad be Rake? Or does the sword's pull to rebirth on the island take prescedence over Draginpur?
I know Rhulad is gathering knowledge from his interactions with the CG - he's being fed arcane skills and magic bit by bit to allow him to pursue his agenda in various realms? but I still doubt how much mental clarity he has regarding his own purpose - he seems to vacillate between specific military agendas and mindless rage and subjugation...
I'm really interested to see which version of Rhulad show's up in the next book - it'll have such an impact on the development of so many POV's and plots.
mmmmm....next book....
j.
there's been so much build up of Karsa and Rhulad as sword fighters - what are we all going to think if the big confrontation between the two of them DOESN'T even happen? What if they join up together? Could Iccy be enough to take them both down? And wouldn't the best person to defeat Rhulad be Rake? Or does the sword's pull to rebirth on the island take prescedence over Draginpur?
I know Rhulad is gathering knowledge from his interactions with the CG - he's being fed arcane skills and magic bit by bit to allow him to pursue his agenda in various realms? but I still doubt how much mental clarity he has regarding his own purpose - he seems to vacillate between specific military agendas and mindless rage and subjugation...
I'm really interested to see which version of Rhulad show's up in the next book - it'll have such an impact on the development of so many POV's and plots.
mmmmm....next book....
j.
#73
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Posted 22 August 2006 - 05:34 PM
In MT the CG mentions that he has scuplted the island from memory, probably of his own world.
So it would seem it's in a warren, but the physical space Rhulad, Withal, the Nachts and Sandy occupy is a construct. The 'sea', is probably the point at which it borders another warren or hold, which allowed Mael access, or perhaps just a visualization of such.
- Abyss, existantial dilemma.
So it would seem it's in a warren, but the physical space Rhulad, Withal, the Nachts and Sandy occupy is a construct. The 'sea', is probably the point at which it borders another warren or hold, which allowed Mael access, or perhaps just a visualization of such.
- Abyss, existantial dilemma.
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#74 Guest_chani_*
Posted 22 August 2006 - 06:20 PM
huh?! See, this is why i need to buckle down and do a re-read of MT!
I think I missed a whole lot in that book - and because it was so different from the others, I may have glided through some parts I should of been paying more attention to - thinking that in BH I'd get back to the main story line. I admit that I didn't think the edur brother's story lines would become so central to the entire series - especially not the character of Rhulad!
Ah well... at least that having the island in a warren makes more sense than not. It also explains why, if Rhulad is being pulled into the CG's realm every time he dies by the sword, he shows up on the beach and not inside the stinky, stuffy tent .
I think I missed a whole lot in that book - and because it was so different from the others, I may have glided through some parts I should of been paying more attention to - thinking that in BH I'd get back to the main story line. I admit that I didn't think the edur brother's story lines would become so central to the entire series - especially not the character of Rhulad!
Ah well... at least that having the island in a warren makes more sense than not. It also explains why, if Rhulad is being pulled into the CG's realm every time he dies by the sword, he shows up on the beach and not inside the stinky, stuffy tent
.
#75
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Posted 22 August 2006 - 11:08 PM
chani;108027 said:
And wouldn't the best person to defeat Rhulad be Rake? Or does the sword's pull to rebirth on the island take prescedence over Draginpur?
Rhulad's sword is made up of the fragments of Silchas Ruin's swords. It would be interesting to see which of the brothers' blades were supreme.
#76
tiam
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Posted 23 August 2006 - 10:44 AM
Id say rake because its the most magically enhanced blade weve seen. Ruins broke against the KCCm aswell and only shards remained. Also does it actually say that the shards are Ruins? I thought they were from Scabbys dagger
#77 Guest_chani_*
Posted 23 August 2006 - 07:20 PM
I tend to agree with Draginpur being stronger than the CG's sword - if only because it's got the power to hold a rent in the warrens within it - then i feel like it's also strong enough to take Rhulad if he goes... who knows if Rake could be bothered though?
#78
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Posted 23 August 2006 - 07:33 PM
Rhulad: Anomandaris Dragnipurake, first son of Mother Dark, sheboinger of Tiam, bearer of Drgnipur... oh, how i have waited for this opportunity to see whose sword is truly supreme.
Rake: Yawn. *Unveils Kurald Galain, crushes Rhulad into paste*
Rhulad: Ahhh, yes, more deaths, more power, my master...
Rake: *Veers into dragon form, fries Rhulad, eats him, uses sword to clean teeth, later deposits his digested remains as a steaming pile of grey dragon poop.*
- Abyss, yes, "steaming pile of grey dragon poop".
Rake: Yawn. *Unveils Kurald Galain, crushes Rhulad into paste*
Rhulad: Ahhh, yes, more deaths, more power, my master...
Rake: *Veers into dragon form, fries Rhulad, eats him, uses sword to clean teeth, later deposits his digested remains as a steaming pile of grey dragon poop.*
- Abyss, yes, "steaming pile of grey dragon poop".
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#79
PannionDude
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Posted 23 August 2006 - 08:09 PM
He reminds me a lot of Conan, actually. Accomplishing his goals in the face of impossible adversity through the simplest of means. This resemblance is strongest in his discussions with the witch (Seren Padac? I think that's the name)
Karsa...that is, posted without reading later stuff.
Seems to me that Rhulad could indeed be killed with Rake's sword and stay dead...until said sword got broked. They seem to be seperate plots though, I doubt it will happen.
Karsa...that is, posted without reading later stuff.
Seems to me that Rhulad could indeed be killed with Rake's sword and stay dead...until said sword got broked. They seem to be seperate plots though, I doubt it will happen.
#80 Guest_chani_*
Posted 23 August 2006 - 08:26 PM
yeah - the whole break-the-sword-that-sucks-everyone-up-and-chains-them-to-a-giant-wagon forever-plot has been kinda wishy washy huh? First draconus was for it, then he was like - wait, never mind i made a mistake. And apparently Rake has to feed it new souls to keep the wagon going. So if he doesn't feed it will it break from the stress within?
And hey - amazing! - I'll get back on topic too and say that Karsa has definitely shown growth as a character - some of it 'predicitable savage with an tude goes to the big city and learns new stuff' type of growth but other aspects a bit more subtle and endearing. I like that he able to change his mind - I think that's my favorite thing about him as a character - he who started out so rigid and one-sided. Plus there's the whole attractive barely contained violence and unbreakable flint sword part. I like that stuff too.
And hey - amazing! - I'll get back on topic too and say that Karsa has definitely shown growth as a character - some of it 'predicitable savage with an tude goes to the big city and learns new stuff' type of growth but other aspects a bit more subtle and endearing. I like that he able to change his mind - I think that's my favorite thing about him as a character - he who started out so rigid and one-sided. Plus there's the whole attractive barely contained violence and unbreakable flint sword part. I like that stuff too.
