[Folken]

well who is it to say there is a younger and older? maybe they;re twins...unless ofcourse its stated somewhere that they are not. It looked as if from Midnight Tides, taht they were concieved at the same time.

[BridgeBurner]

Even with twins, there's always one older....

[Jorram]

Abyss;100977 said:

The severe hate may only run one way. We didn't see Envy comment on Spite in MoI, iirc.

Actually she mentions a "misguided sibling" saving whatever-Fanderay-Ay-name-was. I know it's been discussed before and people have attributed even K'rul (???) to the role of the sibling in question, but as far as I understand the word it can only refer to Spite.

[Sir Thursday]

Do you think if Spite had sacrificed herself to feed Dejim that our much hyped monster would have been able to make a bit more impact on the storyline?

Sir Thursday

[fan_83]

could be... i mean spite is indeed powerful, but dejim feeds on blood not power, so i owuld assume he would be more powerful by having more food before fighting mappo so he might have not lost 2 of his parts

[Jorram]

Hetan;110906 said:

well the quote was ' a misguided sibling who'd though HE was being kind'... so it's kinda understandable.... but it could be one that got past the editors/continuity editors for sure.... unless there's one that we don't know about... and seeing as how they (soletaken) all think of themselves as being related... could have been any of them

Oh..urm..right
Then it's, just as usual, SE's fault

[vrai]

Spite isn't as well developed as Envy as her voyage is still in progress while Envy's journey ended with her conversation with Rake.

There just isn't as much to base our feelings on.

As for only one of them walking away from their future confrontation, I suspect they are going to get an attitude adjustment first. Possibly even a spanking from their father...

[wolfgang]

Sir Thursday;110920 said:

Do you think if Spite had sacrificed herself to feed Dejim that our much hyped monster would have been able to make a bit more impact on the storyline?

Sir Thursday

yes, i thought dejim was a bit of a let down after the way he believed he could conquer the world and paran released the deragoth just to kill it. he couldn't even take out pust

[tiam]

fan_83;110924 said:

could be... i mean spite is indeed powerful, but dejim feeds on blood not power, so i owuld assume he would be more powerful by having more food before fighting mappo so he might have not lost 2 of his parts

Actually id say it was both. i may be wrong but didnt it mention that Dejihm had fed on 6 high mages and that was a factor. I dunno i thought that blood was important for actual feeding but like Great Ravens magical blood (mages priests etc) makes them last longer or in this case keeps his hunger at bay longer

[Thelomen Toblerone]

wolfgang;111623 said:

yes, i thought dejim was a bit of a let down after the way he believed he could conquer the world and paran released the deragoth just to kill it. he couldn't even take out pust

Remember though, he's from a different era- previously the Deragoth enslaved humanity and had clearly met nobody of anywhere near their power, yet Karsa managed to kill two without too much of a fuss- it's likely that when Dejim was around he was incredibly powerful compared to others- and let's not forget the part arrogance might be playing in his thoughts- but in the "present" day he's just another player.


On the Envy/Spite thing, I'd always assumed they were twins- and with Gods involved, who's to say they weren't born at exactly the same time? I'm willing to bet a dragon's vagina is big enough for that.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

*runs off to start the "Dragon's Vagina" thread*

[Onrack the breakable]

I just keep getting the feeling that Spite is the one that is pure evil. Why? Lets just judge them by their actions and not their words. Spite seems good at putting out alot of convincing seeming words that don't answer or even address any issues of substance. But lets look at their actions:

1. Spite unleashed a mass murdering demonic uber divers. Without her it could not have been unleashed.

2. The geas on the mass murdering divers was that it kill Mappo and seperate Icarium. Since Icarium without Mappo is nothing but another uber mass murdering monstronsity this act is pure evil.

3. Spite speaks of Envy as her "evil" sister, but by her actions Envy is at worst simply amoral. She sit and watched Rake kill her dad (who was evil or at least notoriously cruel). Envy did kill many enemys but that was in battle and at the behest of Krul with the aim of freeing the victims of the Panion Domin (including the majority of its own citizens which were nothing more than food for the other cannibals).

I just see Spite as far more evil than Envy no matter how you look at it, based on actions and not words.

[Dolorous Menhir]

And there are no doubt huge amounts of history to both characters that we know nothing about.

Plus there could easily be mitigating circumstances to Spite's release of Dejim Nebrahl. She may not have had much choice in the matter (I doubt it was all her idea and doing, she was just one of 12 Nameless Ones present), she may have banked on Nebrahl not surviving long in the modern world anyway.

I don't think you can really call anyone in this series evil, especially the Crippled God.

Well, everyone except Mallick Rel.

[Abyss]

Dolorous Menhir;130298 said:

...I don't think you can really call anyone in this series evil, especially the Crippled God.

Well, everyone except Mallick Rel.

Nah. He's just misunderstood.

But i agree that Spite's motives are hazy. She did tell Mappo she was happy he survived. Still wondering about a romantic hook-up between those two.

- Abyss, won't get into the inter-species logistics, thanks.

[Onrack the breakable]

Dolorous Menhir;130298 said:

And there are no doubt huge amounts of history to both characters that we know nothing about.

Plus there could easily be mitigating circumstances to Spite's release of Dejim Nebrahl. She may not have had much choice in the matter (I doubt it was all her idea and doing, she was just one of 12 Nameless Ones present), she may have banked on Nebrahl not surviving long in the modern world anyway.

I don't think you can really call anyone in this series evil, especially the Crippled God.

Well, everyone except Mallick Rel.

I agree mostly, but was speaking in comparison Spite vs Envy. Especially since Spite calls Envy evil. It seems those claiming to be rightous and calling others evil usually show themselves to be far more evil by their actions. Definitely not saying Envy is angelfood cake but comparitively speaking Spite so far has shown herself to be infinitely more evil than Envy.

Also, speaking of justifications for evil- Dejim Nebral considered himself the ultimate god because he was, "Feeding the spirit on the torn flesh of children. That stunning exercise of intelligence that could justify any action, no matter how abhorrent."

Evil cannot be justified. Thinking it can is just more evil.

[Aptorian]

Onrack the breakable;131476 said:

I agree mostly, but was speaking in comparison Spite vs Envy. Especially since Spite calls Envy evil. It seems those claiming to be rightous and calling others evil usually show themselves to be far more evil by their actions. Definitely not saying Envy is angelfood cake but comparitively speaking Spite so far has shown herself to be infinitely more evil than Envy.

Also, speaking of justifications for evil- Dejim Nebral considered himself the ultimate god because he was, "Feeding the spirit on the torn flesh of children. That stunning exercise of intelligence that could justify any action, no matter how abhorrent."

Evil cannot be justified. Thinking it can is just more evil.

Dejim isn't evil, it's just his personality... isn't he a demon if I remember it correctly? Again there's no such thing as evil and good, only what the observer see's as good and evil.

I can't see why Envy should be a nicer person than Spite. Spite is most likely mad at her for letting Rake spear her father on dragnipur. Spite wasn't about to risk her own hide removing Mappo, what's the chance any one but a crazy demon who doesn't know Iccy and mappo would try and attack them.

She did it because she thought it necessary for Iccy to go to Lether, if that costs a few hundred peasants their lives, though ****. Can't brake an omelet with out making some eggs.

[Dark Mac]

Apt;131947 said:

Dejim isn't evil, it's just his personality... isn't he a demon if I remember it correctly? Again there's no such thing as evil and good, only what the observer see's as good and evil.

Some demons are evil, some demons are good. See Trull's friend for an example of a good one. Dejim's an evil creature, even if he was specifically created to be evil.

And yes, Spite seems far less nice than Envy. I can't believe anything good about someone who works with the NOs.

[Abyss]

Apt;131947 said:

... Spite wasn't about to risk her own hide removing Mappo, what's the chance any one but a crazy demon who doesn't know Iccy and mappo would try and attack them.....

I had a brief moment of wondering why she wouldn't just go draconic and take Mappo out if that were the point, but i suppose that goes more to how badass Iccy is than anything else.

But Dejim failed, and it really seems like Spite or another NO messed with his geas such that he wouldn't really succeed.. ie, not checking Mappo's body, then wandering off to uninhabitted areas to starve.

Another point i wonder about is a link to Krul... in MoI, ENvy was clearly working for Krul, reluctantly, but even so. She gathered the Seguleh, and probably Garath and Baaljaag at his request.

And in TB we see Spite apparently gathering key players (Mappo, Cutter) and with some form of powerful aid (whoever sent the boat crewed by bokharal and ghosts). Spite clearly pretty pissed at Envy, but i wonder whether other factors may not interfere with them throwing down.

- Abyss, cuz this is a throwdown, a showdown, hell no, i can't slow down...