[Onrack the breakable]

It seems possible that Pust's donkey is an elder god. Do you remember the way Spite narrowed her eyes at it? One thing that suggests Spite is less relatively evil (than her 'evil' sister) is she seemed to get along with the Eresal, but the conversation ended with the Eres leaving them so maybe not. Besides a half animal monkey god likely doesn't have much grasp of good and evil. Just give her bananas and shes happy.

[Onrack the breakable]

Apt;131947 said:

Dejim isn't evil, it's just his personality... isn't he a demon if I remember it correctly? Again there's no such thing as evil and good, only what the observer see's as good and evil.

Let me rephrase that. By 'good' I mean relatively altruistic. By 'evil' I mean self centered psychotic killer.

Dejim isn't misunderstood, hes flat out psychotic (which is sorta accepted behavior for demon type characters although as mentioned alot of the demons are alot kinder and gentler than alot of 'mortals') The world according to Dejim consists of him on top and everyone and everything else is his food.

The only way that would not be evil is if you are looking at things from Dejims perspective- ie psychotic. Consider, how many people would eat cows, chickens, etc that talk or write saying, "please don't eat me".

[Dolorous Menhir]

Onrack the breakable;133022 said:

It seems possible that Pust's donkey is an elder god. Do you remember the way Spite narrowed her eyes at it? One thing that suggests Spite is less relatively evil (than her 'evil' sister) is she seemed to get along with the Eresal, but the conversation ended with the Eres leaving them so maybe not. Besides a half animal monkey god likely doesn't have much grasp of good and evil. Just give her bananas and shes happy.

I love the way everyone does a little double-take at the Mule. Cotillion did it too.

[Abyss]

Clearly, it's an Elder Mule. The Mules of Darkness came later (aka the Donkeygoth), and the Mules of Shadow are a bit of a mystery.

But interesting point made above, that Dejim was intended to be more powerful for having eaten Spite. Now which NO moron thought an immortal draconic ascendent was going to be content with being an hors'd'oeuvre...

- Abyss, more of an amuse guelle...

[Bl1nder]

Most people seem to forget that in MoI, while traveling with Tool, Toc jr and the seguleh, Envy sidetracks to some abandoned temple to speak with k'rul. There he points out that Envy turned her back on the rest as they chained the Crippled God. And then she asks "would have Dasem's daughter lived if I did help?". Despite the fact that it does NOT prover her evil, it shows that she is a very selfish person, and doesnt think about others very often

[Locke Reaper]

So Envy is a spoilt little demigod who throughs tantrems when she doesn't get her way. Sat around and watched how daddy got to play insie his own sword,(which is better than sealed in an Azath), from which he will be released as soon as rake breaks it. And she might be the reaason dassim's daughter is dead. (she was prettier i bet).

Siter spite releases an phycotic divers and gets 11 of the more powerful NO's eaten (love that bit definately got browny points in my book for that one!!).
I would say that balances the scales for spite.

Still haven't seen anything as grossly evil, from either of them. Except maybe envy, poor toc younger got seriously wrecked by the pannion before she decided to show up so, she's evil in the way people who leave their dog's in hot car's are evil!

[Bl1nder]

I think it would be of mutural interest, if they destroy eachother

[Onrack the breakable]

Also somewhere else in BH someone was discussing Spite and Envy or maybe it is in the prologue to RG or even back in MT. Now it seems more like from MT where the two sister dragons Menandore and Dapple are talking about Sheltatha or whoever Scabbys favorite daughter is that they just beat the snot out of. Something like, "she had two horrid daughters with one of the elder gods (Draconis) that named them Envy and Spite." And about their names being an accurate reflection of their natures.

That suggests like all the other evidence to date that Envy is the lesser of the two evils. The fact that Envy didn't arrive in time to save Toc jr, vs Spite releasing Dejim obviously gives Spite the heavyweight all round big EVIL title of the two. And that she didnt attend the last chaining, well considering what happened to Dassem Ulters daughter I wouldn't have been volunteering either.

I don't think either one would be a good traveling companion, at least not if you want to live very long. At least Envy seems likely to make a rescue attempt while Spite is likely to just fly away laughing.

[Aptorian]

First of... They are STILL not evil! They are just very old creatures that don't have the same reach of emotions and compassion that a mortal human posses.

If you want to compare traits, I'd fear Envy more than Spite. If you do something out of spite, you do it because you are cruel and mean, and have no worry about other emotions. Which of course makes her a bad travelling companion but it's not gonna surprise you.

Spite can also come out of a being misstreated or scorned. You know Spite is going to be a nasty creature to mess with, but that hurt might just have been caused by Draconus, her morther and Envy in the first place.

Envy on the other hand in my opinion is a more dangerous emotion. Envy is when you desire someone elses power or possesion. Envy comes from a flaw in your personality, when it threatens someones selfesteem and covetus nature. Envy under her appearance of superiority is extremely fickle and uncertain. As is shown when ever Toc manages to get under her skin. I think Envy is capable of very pety and decietfull acts of betrayal and indeed Spite.

I wouldn't trust any of them, but Envy is the one most likely to deceive you.

... And yes I'm totally overanalyzing them and discarding other traits we've seen I'm them so far

[Bl1nder]

Apt, when was the last time you went to a hospital ?

[Aptorian]

Bl1nder;134958 said:

Apt, when was the last time you went to a hospital ?

Actually a week and half ago... I stole a wheelchair

But on-topic, the whole discussion about them is a bit dangerous because if I recall correctly, we haven't seen any of their POV's yet... If we have, at least not enough to understand them properly yet.

[Bl1nder]

Aptorian;134960 said:

Actually a week and half ago... I stole a wheelchair

But on-topic, the whole discussion about them is a bit dangerous because if I recall correctly, we haven't seen any of their POV's yet... If we have, at least not enough to understand them properly yet.

Agree on that. However theres something everyone overlooks, we all call her LADY Envy (caps intendet ) while we call the other only Spite, so why not Lady Spite? apperently theres something more here, meaby its just pure vanity on Envy's side, but hey, who knows?

[Illuyankas]

Technically she's Sister Spite, but since she's only been spoken about by name or introduced by herself, she wouldn't mention that bit.

[Bl1nder]

Still thought, doesnt Envy introduce herself as Lady Envy to Toc the younger? I mean Spite doesnt consider herself a lady, shes wearing armor and swords when she meets Mappo, which speaks quite plainly really

[Illuyankas]

Tool describes her to Toc. And I think Sister would be an honourary title of some kind.

[Bl1nder]

I suppose

[Trident]

Lady Envy was Draconus's most cherished daughter -- Spite probably did not like this. And since Lady Envy stood by while Rake imprisoned Draconus, then you can see why Spite might hate Envy.

I think Spite is the more evil since Draconus seems to have been an ruthless or even evil Elder God, and Lady Envy teamed up with RAke to end his tyranny. Since Spite did not like this, she might have preferred that tyranny.

Hopefully, Envy blasts Spite into oblivion.

[STOUT]

It seems to me without getting as techinicle as some, that on the front of things so far Spite has proven to be more helpfull twards our most cherished characters and Envy has been in the battlefield without much contact with the characters in the story we know of. Even if spite helped free Dejim and betrayed the nameless ones, I think those acts counter eachother out. I do believe she is going to use Mappo and Icarium to her advantage if she can. I just started RG and it certainly appears that way

[Ben Adephon Delat]

Hate to resurrect an old thread but I find these two interesting and would like to know more about them. Anyway as far as hatred goes I can see several reasons why Spite would hate Envy and they are as follows. Firstly, Envy did nothing to help her father when Rake turned his sword upon him. Secondly, Envy before, during or after this event hooked up with Rake and had children with him. Finally, Erikson just doesn't seem to like happy family especially when siblings are the same sex see Felisin and Tavore for for another female example the Beddict's and the Sengar's for the male form of this phenomena.

[Circle Breaker]

Ben Adephon Delat, on 19 October 2009 - 02:44 PM, said:

Hate to resurrect an old thread but I find these two interesting and would like to know more about them. Anyway as far as hatred goes I can see several reasons why Spite would hate Envy and they are as follows. Firstly, Envy did nothing to help her father when Rake turned his sword upon him. Secondly, Envy before, during or after this event hooked up with Rake and had children with him. Finally, Erikson just doesn't seem to like happy family especially when siblings are the same sex see Felisin and Tavore for for another female example the Beddict's and the Sengar's for the male form of this phenomena.

You'll meet both of them on TtH as minor characters plotwise, featuring even a short PoV from Spite. As for your points, I don't think either one particularly cares for their father, or anyone else for that matter, and to me MoI painted the picture that the feeling was mutual on both sides. Someone even comments something along the lines of: "What kind of a father would name his daughters Spite and Envy?" They are fairly fun characters to read about though, because of their self centered interests and such extreme personalities.