[Cause]

This update made me sad!!

I thought the book was out

[Itwæs Nom]

I thought it's to be out next year this is awesome, really looking forward to it, I loved the series!

[Slow Ben]

I'd be a lot more excited about this book if I hadnt read Republic of Thieves.

But the first 2 were awesome, so.........cautiously optimistic!

[Abyss]

Loved LIES, was dissappointed by RED, gave up on REPUBLIC (and I usually at least skim to the end of any book I start). Barring massive glowing praise for THORN, I won't be picking it up.... And I kind of hope that praise happens because there was a lot to like at the start.

[WinterPhoenix]

Very upset to hear this won't be meeting the September release date I'd already got my hopes up for. It's been some time since I read any of them, and honestly I think I am perhaps being blinded by the fact that I love Locke Lamora as a character, I genuinely don't remember all that much about Republic of Thieves, why is it that you don't really like it, exactly? This is aimed at Abyss, Slow Ben and Crawfish by the way, in case that wasn't obvious

I loves tLoLL alot when I read it, and jumped straight into RSURS which I also enjoyed alot. In my head I remember enjoying Republic as well, but I'm genuinely fuzzy on much of what happened on account of how long it's been since I read any of them. Need to do a re-read. Guess I've got more time for that now :/

[Malaclypse]

Lies was brilliant, it really was and what followed went from bad to worse. It's deeply unfortunate.

[WinterPhoenix]

I loved Lies, really was great and I guess it says something that I remember more about that one than either of the following books, despite reading them somewhat more recently - though still awhile ago now. Perhaps a re-read will give me a better stance for a more detailed opinion, I am quite enamored with Locke as a character so maybe that's why I am not remembering such a drop in quality. Will still be getting Thorn whenever it is released whatever, I think - unless a re-read really turns me off. At any rate though, even with this push back in release date I can only imagine it'll be releases at least a decade before either The Winds of Winter or The Doors of Stone!

[Werthead]

I think it's interesting that when Lynch started writing this story, he started with THE THORN OF EMBERLAIN. And that wasn't working too well so eventually he rolled right back and started with LIES. So the three previously published books are in fact a prelude to the real story, which hasn't even started yet.

I think this is also responsible for mistaking what the series is about. From Book 1 - and even Book 2 to a more limited extent - it looks like this will be a series of fantasy heists and capers. And it's actually more of a traditional fantasy saga with a continent-spanning war, but told from the POV from a spymaster rather than a general or king. The decision to give us Locke's backstory has skewed Lynch's original intentions.

For my part, I thought Books 2 and 3 were flawed and nowhere near as good as LIES, but they were also quite interesting storytelling choices. It would have been very easy, and extremely lucrative, for Lynch to have just given us LIES 2, LIES 3, LIES 13 and he was not interested in doing that. He went in a different direction even when illness and commercial realities were plaguing him and it would have been easy to have made a different, more conventional choice.

This post has been edited by Werthead: 18 September 2016 - 09:01 PM

[Abyss]

Werthead, on 18 September 2016 - 09:01 PM, said:

I think it's interesting that when Lynch started writing this story, he started with THE THORN OF EMBERLAIN. And that wasn't working too well so eventually he rolled right back and started with LIES. So the three previously published books are in fact a prelude to the real story, which hasn't even started yet.

I think this is also responsible for mistaking what the series is about. From Book 1 - and even Book 2 to a more limited extent - it looks like this will be a series of fantasy heists and capers. And it's actually more of a traditional fantasy saga with a continent-spanning war, but told from the POV from a spymaster rather than a general or king. The decision to give us Locke's backstory has skewed Lynch's original intentions.

For my part, I thought Books 2 and 3 were flawed and nowhere near as good as LIES, but they were also quite interesting storytelling choices. It would have been very easy, and extremely lucrative, for Lynch to have just given us LIES 2, LIES 3, LIES 13 and he was not interested in doing that. He went in a different direction even when illness and commercial realities were plaguing him and it would have been easy to have made a different, more conventional choice.

Counterpoint: it would have given us better stories. RED is a lame heist and a mediocre pirate story smashed together for no effective reason. REPUBLIC is a boring political caper and a painfully boring flashback.

[Macros]

I've said it before.
It's like the Danny Ocean trilogy. 11 was good fun and entertaining. 12 a big step down and 13 just absolute pants

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Abyss, on 19 September 2016 - 03:19 AM, said:

Werthead, on 18 September 2016 - 09:01 PM, said:

I think it's interesting that when Lynch started writing this story, he started with THE THORN OF EMBERLAIN. And that wasn't working too well so eventually he rolled right back and started with LIES. So the three previously published books are in fact a prelude to the real story, which hasn't even started yet.

I think this is also responsible for mistaking what the series is about. From Book 1 - and even Book 2 to a more limited extent - it looks like this will be a series of fantasy heists and capers. And it's actually more of a traditional fantasy saga with a continent-spanning war, but told from the POV from a spymaster rather than a general or king. The decision to give us Locke's backstory has skewed Lynch's original intentions.

For my part, I thought Books 2 and 3 were flawed and nowhere near as good as LIES, but they were also quite interesting storytelling choices. It would have been very easy, and extremely lucrative, for Lynch to have just given us LIES 2, LIES 3, LIES 13 and he was not interested in doing that. He went in a different direction even when illness and commercial realities were plaguing him and it would have been easy to have made a different, more conventional choice.

Counterpoint: it would have given us better stories. RED is a lame heist and a mediocre pirate story smashed together for no effective reason. REPUBLIC is a boring political caper and a painfully boring flashback.

Pretty much that, except I have a certain fondness for Red Seas. I like pirate captain lady too much. Republic's biggest problem is that by the time the book explained the caper I didn't care about it any more. It was a side show to the not particularly interesting flashbacks.

Mind you, I'm not a yardstick. As much as I enjoyed Lies I'm not as enthusiastic as most about it. Apologies, I forget who mentioned up thread not liking any of the Gentlemen Bastards that much - but whoever it was, I'm right there with you! I spent the entire book wanting Locke to get is comeuppance for being such a cock.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 19 September 2016 - 11:39 AM

[WinterPhoenix]

I remember having a fondness for the Pirate captain lady as well, I feel like I quite enjoyed the pirate story part of Red Seas, I think I might re-read these before I delve into the Prince of Nothing trilogy, just because it's actually bothering me that all I can remember is really enjoying Locke and Jean and the actual stories are vague as hell. Seriously can't get with the people who don't like them, love the arrogance cockiness, though I'm willing to concede if I actually met him I'd probably dislike being robbed and left with nothing!

Werthead, I didn't realise he'd actually started writing Thorn first, interesting to view the current 3 as one large prequel, thanks for that piece of information.

[Slow Ben]

Lies was awesome. It had everything you want in a fantasy and a caper.

I enjoyed Red as well, the heist was meh, but the characters were still great.

Republic had an interesting premise with Locke and Jean going up against Sabetha in Karthain. But its very poorly executed.

The flashbacks dragged on and on and on, and werent really interesting to begin with.

The romance between Locke and Sabetha seemed forced. And Sabetha wasnt a very well developed character.

Theres more, but im going to stop because besides those, what really bothered me was the damn book was just boring.

[WinterPhoenix]

I didn't enjoy Republic as much as the other 2, and even without a re-read I think it goes without saying that 1 is definitely the best of the 3 by some way. Similar to you Slow Ben, I never got on with Sabetha as a character, she bored me and I don't think there's much to her beyond how she relates to Locke, nor do I believe extensive independent characterization in following novels has much chance of changing my opinion on that front. I just enjoy reading about Locke and Jean tbh, not sure how much that's clouding my mind when it comes to how boring Republic really is. Gotta work out an order for my reading before I get to this re-read though, nearly done with tCG, but then I have the remaining ICE novels, plus Kharkhanas and Dancer's Lament, then I'll debate between re-reading this or starting The Prince of Nothing I guess.

[Maark Abbott]

Werthead, on 18 September 2016 - 09:01 PM, said:

I think it's interesting that when Lynch started writing this story, he started with THE THORN OF EMBERLAIN. And that wasn't working too well so eventually he rolled right back and started with LIES. So the three previously published books are in fact a prelude to the real story, which hasn't even started yet.

I think this is also responsible for mistaking what the series is about. From Book 1 - and even Book 2 to a more limited extent - it looks like this will be a series of fantasy heists and capers. And it's actually more of a traditional fantasy saga with a continent-spanning war, but told from the POV from a spymaster rather than a general or king. The decision to give us Locke's backstory has skewed Lynch's original intentions.

For my part, I thought Books 2 and 3 were flawed and nowhere near as good as LIES, but they were also quite interesting storytelling choices. It would have been very easy, and extremely lucrative, for Lynch to have just given us LIES 2, LIES 3, LIES 13 and he was not interested in doing that. He went in a different direction even when illness and commercial realities were plaguing him and it would have been easy to have made a different, more conventional choice.

So, what, it's sort of like a Jimmy the Hand type job? I can get behind that. It's the same path he takes, after all, and he's the best character in the Riftwar/Serpentwar books.

[Nevyn]

To me, the problem was always that Lies was too good, but also in a way too final. It felt perfectly self contained. Almost a Matrix problem.

Camorr and the crime world within it was Locke's world. The bastards were Locke's allies and a big source of what he was able to do, as well as their cash and costumes and resources. Lies set that world up, and then more or less blew it up, and all we were left with were Locke, Jean, and pissed off Bondsmagi. So for me, this led to the second book feeling unanchored and not so special. The third one tried to recapture a bit of the magic with flashbacks, but beyond that is was a bunch of short cons, and Sabetha has not been the best of characters thus far. Plus the extra Locke backstory I have not been wild about.

So if all this was really set up to the book Lynch really wanted to write, it did not feel that way.

[amphibian]

I fall in more with Werthead in liking how none of the three are the same book. However, I rather like Lynch's style of writing and his need to combine the heists with lots of backstory and pushing the characters to some very dark places.

Red Seas was bad though. There's an entire middle section just missing from that book (how they learn to sail etc). I liked the third book.

[Werthead]

THE THORN OF EMBERLAIN has been finished and delivered. Release should be 2020.

[Cause]

Werthead, on 23 May 2019 - 02:52 PM, said:

THE THORN OF EMBERLAIN has been finished and delivered. Release should be 2020.

Amazing, someone mentioned this series last week on the forum and I was commenting I forgot it existed. Its been over 6 years!

Yet on the previous page to this one in 2016 I made a comment I was looking forward to it!

LIES was such a great book but as someone said previously it was almost too self contained! I wanted more of Locke and Jean and the rest of the crew doin confidence tricks and instead half the cast died and the books have been shifting in flavor ever since.

I hope he pulls off another great book though! Heres to hoping!

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

The series really peaked with Red Seas for me - aka "Everything is better with pirates!"

Still, tentatively excited

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 24 May 2019 - 10:22 AM