[Dr Trouble]

I looked and couldn't see another thread like this ... Okay I didn't look, my scrolling finger hurts =

Anywho, carrying on.
What do you hate to see when you open up a new book? What makes you groan out loud in disgust, weep in frustration, or want to commit murder?

For me there are a couple of things but i'll start with one:
The Boy/man who kills somebody and then decides that they never wants to kill again and no matter what happens they stubbonly refuse to lift a sword/pointy stick in defence of there loved ones.
This really grinds my gears for many many reasons, but mostly because I find it despicable and far from noble.

Example:
Tim stood there helpless while his ailing wife was raped repeatedly by a band of robbers. Sure he had been trained intensively at the academy for four years and there was a sword lying right next to him, but he never did quite get over that fear of hurting others with pointy objects.


*Read more of Tim and his crazy adventures in my upcoming novel, "Why did I have to be born an idiot." I'll be using the pen name Terry Goodkind.

[Astra]

So far, I didn't like when Robin Hobb allowed this pirate to get away with the rape of a woman. This was so ****ing frustrating. I could not believe she could write it at all. What a sort of example is it for youngsters? You can do it and not be punished if you are smart? Has she gone through the process herself, so she wrote about it? No idea.

[Aneirin]

Anachronisms, of a sort. Words and phrases that have specific roots in modern or historic western culture, and just don't belong in a fantasy environment.

Having gotten over his earlier psychological issues, though still mad as a hatter, Tim raised his sword and cried 'Tally ho! Avast ye!' as he charged hell bent for leather into the enemy platoon. He pitied the fools, who now had buckley's chance as he and his Uberblade became a weapon of mass destruction.

I can't remember who it was I read recently that sometimes did this, but it never failed to irk me.

[Aptorian]

I hate the fact that fantasy books usually can be found in the same age. either in the old world of the roman/greek era or a european middleage/heroic knights scenario. Often there will be contact to other cultures but they will of course normally be religious (fanatics) or simple tribes people.

I mean, why not later on, like the industrial age, the wild west, the political and socialrevolutions and so forth. It's like there's only this small band of writers that dare to wander the space between the "old" fantasy and the "new" science fiction.

[drinksinbars]

you should read paul kearneys a different kingdom, its set in ireland at the end of the war and up to the modern day, well sort of:)

i hate when people dont kill baddies, or something is really obvious and no one chooses to mention it and it happens and then everything goes wrong. or the supposed surprise characters feel when things go wrong, though the author has been telegraphing it for ages. i hate glaring holes in logic, like in darkness at sethenon when pug tomas and macros are heading forward in time, why not stop just before the war and stop it before it started, or if you didnt want to create a paradox and destroy yourself, why not go back to just after you left saving a year and thousands of lives!!!!!

i hate it when the main character is a child who is complete crap at everything, yet everytime soemone tries to kill them they miraculously survive. like they pick up a knife and an armoured brigand is chasing them and they dont get killed, but somehow managed to fight the fellow off and more oft than not, kill him? doesnt this strike anyone as odd?

[GardenGnome]

The most annoying thing is the black/white characters and the very strong good/evil setting. It just gets on my nerves. Oh, and soap opera (hello Jordan).

[Mane of Chaos]

Apt, you should definitely read Garth Nix's Abhorsen Trilogy (Sabriel, Lirael, Abhorsen). I think that you'll enjoy it.

[Agraba]

Quote

Example:
Tim stood there helpless while his ailing wife was raped repeatedly by a band of robbers. Sure he had been trained intensively at the academy for four years and there was a sword lying right next to him, but he never did quite get over that fear of hurting others with pointy objects.

I never read this book, but this looks like a very obvious case of someone merely lying to themselves phychologically, because they don't want to admit the truth. That he's probably incapable of taking them on. So he'll just tell himself that he "doesn't want to hurt them". At least that's realistic, but maybe that author made the latter the actual case. 'Least I'm just saying what I think.

Here's what I don't like: I don't like it when authors are too protective of their "good" characters. Take Robert Jordan. Some of his characters got into skirmishes, but they always come out well. He avoids tragedy like wildfire. There were some odd kidnappings, or instances where the good guys are at the bad guys' mercy, but he always brings them back out. No character has been permanently scarred (except for a small case in the newest Book 11), and nobody was turned over (even though RJ showed a thousand ways a character can be turned over to the "dark side"). In fact, Robert Jordan even foreshadowed a sinister plan against the hero in Book 4, we finally saw that plan come into motion in Book 11 (jeez), and yet, it was snuffed in a second by the hero who didn't even expect it. C'mon, that's just weak writing.

I also don't like it when an author spends a little too much time indulging a character's thoughts about a situation, to the point that it takes over a few pages and becomes repetetive. It's those moments where time is frozen over several pages, and we're just analyzing the character's psyche. Steven Erikson had a bit of this problem in Book 6, and even GRRM did this a bit (but thankfully not much at all), but the most flagrant example of this problem is, again Robert Jordan. Especially in his latest books. Wanna know why Crossroads of Twilight was 700 hardcover pages of nothing? Not because of descriptions of palace corridors and women's skirts, it's because of a character's troubling thoughts and explanations of the matter. Believe me, look at Crossroads of Twilight passages again, and you'll see that I'm right.

[polishgenius]

Same as Apt. Not that I don't enjoy those kind of fantasies, but I do like a little variety. That's the legacy of Tolkien though. Writers who were doing it at the time got completely obscured.
There's more now though. Mieville ftw

Also, the farm boy thing. Why is it hardly ever experienced soldiers who win the war and save the world?

And yes, I also hate good guys never being hurt, especially when it happens through stormtrooper syndrome where highly trained crack troops can't shoot for tea and biscuits while a random guy who's the hero or his mate wings it and turns into the best sharpshooter ever.

[Obdigore]

My favorite part is always when the humble bakers apprentice (or whatever) accidentally stumbles upon the one way to kill the most evil person ever (gently tickling their left ring-finger with a goose feather). Also hate the way most of the evil things have the stupidest, most asanine ways of dying, and the whole book is built around the quest to get the killer ingredient (water from the ocean of tlkdsa'haldkj that has been blessed by a alhsddgh shamman and passed through the body of a fhekfhg.)

edit: forgot an ending )

[zeeny]

I hate having a protagonist being introduced from childhood. There is NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY who manages to write in good or at the very least coherent children characters in fantasy(GrrM is forgiven, but don't start me on Bran being a decent character.....)When I opened GoTM the first time, I was ready to run scared. Child Parran. Shank you vely much. So happy I didn't.;o)
It's strange, but children in sci fi usually grow up better than those in fantasy. Here is hoping for Kettle.

[GardenGnome]

Izz said:

I hate perfect characters.

I prefer characters who throw little boys out of windows, have sex with whores all day, rape chicks 'cause they don't believe in reality, run away at the sight of trouble, hate themselves, have incestuous relationships... y'know stuff like that.

Stuff I can relate to. lol.

This is why, for example, Rupert Avery is far more interesting to read about that Eric Darkmoor. (Feist, for those who don't recognize the names)
Eric is so "good" that it makes my nosehair ache, whereas Rupert manages to cheat on his wife, who he married out of pity anyway. Lovely.
Might have gotten the names wrong there, but it's close...

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Apt said:

I hate the fact that fantasy books usually can be found in the same age. either in the old world of the roman/greek era or a european middleage/heroic knights scenario. Often there will be contact to other cultures but they will of course normally be religious (fanatics) or simple tribes people.

I mean, why not later on, like the industrial age, the wild west, the political and socialrevolutions and so forth. It's like there's only this small band of writers that dare to wander the space between the "old" fantasy and the "new" science fiction.

I don't mean to go on and on about the Dark Tower, but it's exactly what you are looking for, if you haven't read it. Western/sci fi/modern times/general craziness/just read it.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

zeeny said:

I hate having a protagonist being introduced from childhood. There is NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY who manages to write in good or at the very least coherent children characters in fantasy(GrrM is forgiven, but don't start me on Bran being a decent character.....)When I opened GoTM the first time, I was ready to run scared. Child Parran. Shank you vely much. So happy I didn't.;o)
It's strange, but children in sci fi usually grow up better than those in fantasy. Here is hoping for Kettle.

Ever read the Ender series by Orson Scott Card? He falls into the trap of writing children like they are miniature adults, but covers well by saying the kids in the book are all geniuses. Anyways, pretty interesting series. But....to keep on topic with the thread, I am tired of elves and dwarves and other unoriginal creatures - see my thread about that topic specifically. I'm a little tired of quests for magic items, and magic swords in general. At least when the hero is wielding them. Dragnipur is pretty sweet. Whatg really bugs me is when fantasy is written by Terry Goodkind, but that's a discussion for a different thread. I don't like when authors can't write above a teenager's reading level, then throws in violent rape just so their book can't be considered young adult, when that is what it really is. I'm too critical of fantasy, which causes me problems because I love it but have a hard time reading any I can respect, or even tolerate. Thank god for Erikson. Those are all the complaints I can think of for now. More later, I'm sure.

[zeeny]

Quote

Ever read the Ender series by Orson Scott Card? He falls into the trap of writing children like they are miniature adults,

Yes. He was onto something there. Up untill page 200 of book 1, that is. Then it all went down and was just one more good idea into the wrong hands.

[bwgan]

I agree with pretty much everything that has been said...such as perfect good hero has to fight completely evil dark lord to save the world...and in the next book/series he has to do it all over again. I am also tired of farm boy etc makes good (because of course he isn't really a simple farm boy at all :eek:)

And superior condescending female characters....grr...why can't a female character be strong and fallible...and why are they always obsessed with having a bath ...Um that doesn't sound how I meant it to...I am very clean, but I don't KEEP on about it ALL the flaming time! And when they aren't being superior they are being cloyingly sweet :drunk: [nearest smilley to vomit!]

I actually like the medieval/prehistory settings, I suppose because those are the periods of history in which I am most interested.

Oh...and another thing...how can the young heroes suddenly learn in months or weeks something that takes years of practice...or did someone say that already...sorry can't read through the frothing at the mouth rage...who started this topic anyway...grrrr....

And I agree with Agraba...I like to see characters get hurt...um that doesn't sound too good either (I must be coming over as some sort of raving psychopath. :eek: ) What I mean is, when characters get into all manner of fights and don't even so much as break a nail, let alone lose someone...I mean I know it's fantasy, but really??

Think I'd better go and lie down in a dark corner now....

[Wry]

I hate the way writers think that just because it's fantasy theycan suspend all laws of physics, logic, common sense or realistic human behavior. I hate the whole "young boy must defeat dark lord, no one thinks he can do it because he a commoner, he does it in a ridiculously easy way, turns out he's the long lost bastard heir of the royal line" story.

I hate that few writers have the guts let bad things happen to their heros, or to let them fail and not succeed in the end. I hate that most fantasy writers are damn poor at it.

[Folken]

So you hate fantasy in general then? Laws of physics dont account for people shooting out energy from their bodies to fly...or opening up rents in the air to another world with a thought or some mumbo jumbo they mumble

And exactly how does one define realistic human behaviour?

[Wry]

Ah well, thats kind of my point. It's a given that if the book is going to have magic or the like then you have to make an exception but i think some writers let that give them licence to pretty strange things - like have a nine year old boy fight of a legion of soldiers with a broadsword that by rights he shouldn't be able to lift.

As for realistic human behavior? well to use an example from above, children reasoning and acting in an over adult way. People being all evil, or all good. etc.

I don't hate fantasy, i just think there is alot of people writing (and selling) pretty bad fantasy.