[Illuyankas]

It may be that the wards around WJ and the two marines, made by Rake himself, were too strong for them to escape, and they're all trapped in a sarcophagus heading for the bottom of the sea, for ever...

Now I KNOW I typed that here before.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Twist was on that pedestal too, right?

Who was behind those -

WJ
Silverfox's two nameless protectors
Achievant Twist

anyone else?

[Illuyankas]

Twist was lined with the other BB's, only WJ and the nameless two were on the pedestal.

[Red_orbiT]

Well, his statement looks sure enough, but it feels more like:
"No, Gandalf the Gray will not come back"
"But he did!"
"Na ah! That was Gandalf the White!"
"Doh."

Maybe a Rumjack sometime soon?

Oh, and about the happy ending you can't see coming, I'll have to agree. Look at the title of the series. Everyone will die.

[GingerBreadMan]

Where did you get everyone will die?

A Tale of the Malazan Book of the Fallen

Seems more like a history book about the history of the Malazan Empire and events surrounding it. The Malazan Empire itself might die, but I doubt everyone is gonna just die.

[Memnoch]

I would be upset if Whiskeyjack came back. The moment of his death was powerful and drove home the brutal reality of war - people die, even people you don't want to die. It kind of demeans their death were they to come back IMO.

[Brahm_K]

Memnoch said:

I would be upset if Whiskeyjack came back. The moment of his death was powerful and drove home the brutal reality of war - people die, even people you don't want to die. It kind of demeans their death were they to come back IMO.

Ya, exactly. Thats what happens with Duiker and the Bridgeburners who re-appear... Their death loses all impact. Hopefully Erikson doesn't do the same to Whiskeyjack.

A comment I found interesting in that little blurb is that Erikson says that there's a resurrection coming that all the others are leading to. Any ideas about who this could be? The Crippled God, maybe? I also find it odd that Erikson didn't include Rhulad in that list, unless that quote is from before Midnight Tides and thats the resurrection he was talking about.

[drza44]

I don't expect Whiskeyjack to be resurrected, and though I liked him as a character that's not the reason why his absence bothers me. What bothers me is, there's not a single character of Whiskeyjack's level of accomplishment that hasn't ascended or been reborn. Not one. Add to that that the Bridgeburners themselves have ascended en masse. To me, there is no logical reason from what we've seen of Erikson's world for Whiskeyjack to not be ascendant. So unless that is just a twist that he has yet to reveal (which is definitely possible. Even likely), having Whiskeyjack die a "soldier's death" and just stay dead doesn't make sense. Maybe it adds to the literary impact of the death, but to me it doesn't fit consistently within the story that's being told.

[tiam]

maybe hes become a god. maybe he wont come back as WJ but as Iskara Jarak and hell be the god of the Anibar

[GingerBreadMan]

Why would he be God of Anibar?

He loved his men more than anything, surely if he came back in some form or another it would be to his soldiers.

[tiam]

the god of the Ainbar is the Iron Prophet Iskara Jarak. he visited the anibar with 100 men and told then to flee as he wouldnt let his men kill them but others were coming who would kil them.

Im sure this is WJ and the BB

I know he wouldnt choose to but he has worshippers so that likely makes him a god

[Nazaar]

Maybe he simply doesn't want to ascend?

[Nazaar]

Daemon said:

This leaves the question if one's a choice. Paran did not want to ascend as well, as far as I remember.

Well, this is just some wild speculation, but it might be the difference between someone who's alive and gets thrust into a position that they don't want, and someone who's died outright, and chooses not to take the path available to him, ie. Ascension. While he may not have been the first choice for the role, Paran is suited to being the Master of the Deck. Whiskeyjack is not suited to anything but resting.

I think there's a pretty clear trend that some people have just done their time. Dujek and WJ are good examples of old guys who are just past their time, not necessarily physically, but emotionally. They had nothing left but duty, and the love of their troops. The Empire they built is gone, or changed, making them obselete in some senses. Similarly with Urko and Cartheron Crust, and Dassem (though he's slightly different), but in Dujek and WJ's cases their ties to the empire were never severed, so they never had the opportunity to be pastured out. It's for those reasons that SE won't bring back WJ, because he's done his bit and deserves his peace.

[Dark Mac]

Nazaar said:

Well, this is just some wild speculation, but it might be the difference between someone who's alive and gets thrust into a position that they don't want, and someone who's died outright, and chooses not to take the path available to him, ie. Ascension. While he may not have been the first choice for the role, Paran is suited to being the Master of the Deck. Whiskeyjack is not suited to anything but resting.

I think there's a pretty clear trend that some people have just done their time. Dujek and WJ are good examples of old guys who are just past their time, not necessarily physically, but emotionally. They had nothing left but duty, and the love of their troops. The Empire they built is gone, or changed, making them obselete in some senses. Similarly with Urko and Cartheron Crust, and Dassem (though he's slightly different), but in Dujek and WJ's cases their ties to the empire were never severed, so they never had the opportunity to be pastured out. It's for those reasons that SE won't bring back WJ, because he's done his bit and deserves his peace.

I notice you don't mention Kellanved, Dancer, Nok, Tayschrenn or Laseen. Why not? They're every bit as old as the characters you mention. Urko has already been convinced to come back, and with Crust together with Tavore, he might come back too. WJ was never broken in the same way Dujek was, and I can't seem him abandoning the Ascended BBs.

[Nazaar]

Dark Mac said:

I notice you don't mention Kellanved, Dancer, Nok, Tayschrenn or Laseen. Why not? They're every bit as old as the characters you mention. Urko has already been convinced to come back, and with Crust together with Tavore, he might come back too. WJ was never broken in the same way Dujek was, and I can't seem him abandoning the Ascended BBs.

It was actually pretty deliberate. The way they seem to work is completely different to the others. They've been around as long as they others, but are still deeply involved in what's going on, voluntarily. It seems more to do with the fact that Dujek, WJ et al didn't seek power, but just did what was right in their eyes. Kellanved, Dancer, Laseen are all 'playing the game', which has kept them interested, the same way that QB is having a ball.

WJ wasn't broken, but he was tired, and I can't see him have the same drive as The Emperor/Empress. The only thing that would bring him back would be duty to the BB's, and more to the point the belief that they need him.
No idea what's going on with Nok, we don't really get to know him at all, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's in a similar category to WJ, same with CC and Urko, just doing what is right vs actually being interested in what's going on.

I dunno, it's just a theory...

[GingerBreadMan]

I believe he will come back in some form in one of the Malazan World books(not neccessarily in the series).

I don't see a guy like WJ being told"You can choose to come ascend and continue to play a part, or just die" and then choosing to die knowing he could help out those he loved.

He was the kind of guy willing to die for his men, and if not dieing would best help his men then he would stay "alive". He sacrifices himself for his men, so unless Rake did some magic trick to keep him dead then he will be back somewhere in someform.

[Asmodeus de'Yakshas]

Takeshi said:

You know the more times I re-read MoI the worse his death becomes, that rubbish about him refusing healing every damm time, with the lame "Another Time" or "I haven't got time". Got plenty of time to sleep with Korlat, get Drunk, and generally bum about.

Everytime he is on screen, its oh look at his bum leg or him refusing healing. Its just so forced its worse than some of Jordans forshadowing. From Erikson who is generally very good at forshadowing, its like being hit in the face with it everytime.

It was supposed to be like that. In tBH it is said that it was Hood himself that intervened and made Whiskeyjack decline healing everytime. As a revenge since WJ stole his sister from Hood's service. It is also said that all things consedered Hood now deeply regrets his actions, considering what is happening with the CG business.