[Malaclypse]

Dancer is never referred to as Kellanved's 'consort'.

As for whether or not Dassem was the third partner 'from the beginning', it seems likely...either Nok or Apsalar was confused or lying, but Apsalar's borrowed memories and the pointlessness of her lying to Cutter lends her account a lot more weight with me. Apsalar also says that Dancer trusted only Kellanved and Dassem and Nok was already either lying or misinformed about Hawl...etc.

[Tsundoku]

Where does it mention Stonny sometimes bats for the other team? Obviously MOI, but where?

Cheers,

La Sombra, isn't outraged (more the opposite ), just forgetful in his advanced decrepitude

EDIT: while I'm asking for book/page refs, anyone recall where we get other info about Salk Elan before he was ... you know who? Sorry to go off-topic, but I didn't want to start a new thread.

[Hume]

@ Sombra

When the Trio along with kerulri (krul) in their Caravan stop of at Saltoan(?) they stay at an inn.
Stonny Sleeps with one of the Chicks there.

[namo]

[OT] Didn't realize about Loras & Renly... though in retrospect it fits. And definitely lots of lesbianism going on in tWoT[/OT]

Wasn't Apsalar referring to Traveller when she talked about the 3rd one, that "was actually there from the beginning" ? I'm probably confused again, so I'd appreciate if someone could tell me where this is.
But I do remember the way she says it implies it wasn't a well-known fact that this 3rd person was closely associated to K&D : Dassem might have stayed in the shadows at first...

Nobody mentioned it, but Kellanved has a child, so...
Or did the two gods trick nature to have a child together ?!

[Murrin]

Yes, Apsalar was talking about Traveller. And Shadowthrone was certainly not eager to meet him. It all depends on who Traveller turns out to be.

[Dolorous Menhir]

namo said:

Nobody mentioned it, but Kellanved has a child, so...
Or did the two gods trick nature to have a child together ?!

If you are talking about the reference Tays makes to Shadowthrones child at the end of BH, I thought it pretty clear that he meant the Empire itself.

[Morgoth]

namo said:

[OT] Didn't realize about Loras & Renly... though in retrospect it fits. And definitely lots of lesbianism going on in tWoT[/OT]

Wasn't Apsalar referring to Traveller when she talked about the 3rd one, that "was actually there from the beginning" ?

One of the most debated questions on this forum is the identity of Traveller. The majority agrees that he is most likely Dassem, while some disagree loudly. He seems to fitt being Dassem apart from a change in eye colour between NoK and HoC..

[Werthead]

Quote

Where in new spring are S&M quoted as being pillow friends? We know for sure some others are..like Elaida and that Athan mere woman. RJ only seems to only show lesbians and no males seem homosexsual. Also rest of the series doesnt seem consistant with Moirane's being that way inclined.

I think Moiraine is straight, but as I said she and Siaun seem to have 'experimented' a bit whilst they were novices (note the end of Chapter 12 in New Spring and in the middle of Chapter 17 when Cadusane matter-of-factly says to another sister that Moiraine and Siuan were pillow friends and Moiraine turning bright red at having her 'intimacies' exposed). It's pretty clear by The Great Hunt that such their relationship is platonic by that point. Also, in KoD an Aes Sedai POV points out that most Aes Sedai leave such things behind as they get older.

As for Martin - well there is absolutely no doubt there. Renly and Loras were gay (and presumably Loras still is). Okay, it was done a bit subtly and we don't get a full-on scene for the very reasons already described (making young male homophobic readers run off scared), but there is no doubt at least on that issue.

As for MBF: yeah, it looks less likely that Dancer and Kellenvad were knocking boots. I don't really care about the issue enough to re-read all 5,500+ pages to look for a couple of references that I probably misremembered anyway.

[Red_orbiT]

Note that SE already has included male (divine)homosexuality.
The Errant(although he certainly swings both ways).

[namo]

Murrin said:

Yes, Apsalar was talking about Traveller. And Shadowthrone was certainly not eager to meet him. It all depends on who Traveller turns out to be.

Yes, my point is that it provides an argument in favor of DU=Traveller :
- Traveller was with K&D all the time from the start
- the only two men Dancer trusted were K and DU

Then there's the fact he's Dal Honese... But it's not really the place to discuss all of that. (don't hit me, Hetan !)

Quote

If you are talking about the reference Tays makes to Shadowthrones child at the end of BH, I thought it pretty clear that he meant the Empire itself.

That's a possibility, but I reserve my judgement on this one - it doesn't seem "clear" to me.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Well, what else is it supposed to be? Tays' glances over troubled Malaz City and then warns Kellanved that his child is in danger. Seems obvious to me.

The later reference to Temper is just a coincidence - Temper isn't the Emperor's son.

[Asandir]

From the way things are proceeding at the moment you might as well say Iccy and Mappo are homos as well. Both lifelong companions(well in Mappos case anyway) just like K & D, the only difference is we have more info on these two.
I think Kel and Dan are just mates kinda like Laurel and Hardy, Cheech and Chong, Dorothy and Toto....aahhh you get the point!!

[tiam]

i dont think they were gay at all. dunno why just seems iprobable. i also think temper is the kellenveds son. there can be no other reason for that line being there

[GingerBreadMan]

Nah, Kellanved founded the Empire. It is his work, it is in trouble, thus the line clearly indicates that he is speaking of the empire rather than a actual child.

We have no evidence Temper is his son, in fact what we do know seems to disprove the theory.

[namo]

Dolorous Menhir said:

The later reference to Temper is just a coincidence - Temper isn't the Emperor's son.

We agree on this

But Tayschrenn is certain that the Empire is dying (beginning of his POV), so I'd have imagined him telling ST to mourn, not fear.
Again, that the child is the Empire seems the most plausible, I just don't have any certainty on this.

[GingerBreadMan]

I thought Tayschrenn found the Empire not quite dying but balancing on an edge. He may have thought it was doomed, but he didn't know for sure, still doesn't I imagine.

[Tiger_sword]

"If you are going to fear then fear for your child" - or something along those lines.

Doesn't sound good (if he is refering to the empire) but by no means doomed. We can clearly see the empire is in a dire state internally. It is indeed on a knife edge, the next few choices made by Laseen, Tavour and others could make or break the empire.

[namo]

"The old heart of the Malazan Empire was wounded, and he did not expect it to survive much longer."

I now realize he could be referring to Malaz City only, but I still stand by my previous opinion.

[sarlinspellweaver]

Could he not also be referring to the Deadhouse? Especially given the death of the Azath in Letheras during MT

Alas, my copy of BH is sitting on the other side of the Irish sea, so I haven't been able to check.