[tiam]

thx dol

Bone casters are incredibly powerful and can scare gods (hood in MOI) so raest is also unbelievably powerful along with an imass bone caster would in toolsopinion 'challnge the gods and kill most of them'

[GingerBreadMan]

I have a problem with the theory that taking over a bonecaster gives one control of his clan.

The reason they used the Ritual was to combat Jaghut Tyrants. Tyrants who have a habit of posessing others, surely they would have seen it as too risky to have a link allowing the bonecaster control. All a Tyrant would have to do is posess the weakest Bonecaster and wham he would have his own T'lan army.

[namo]

Hetan said:

@ Abyss
hmmm... yep I agree with that.. on the bonecaster bit...
I believe it was his painting of her that made her immortal... a bonecaster (he had the talent) re-creating a bonecaster... so to speak

Interesting ! I thought the prohibition was merely due to superstition - like those isolated populations on Earth who thought (think ?) that photographs can imprison the soul.

And since we know Soletaken are extremely long-lived, it should be enough.

Whether the painting made Kilava rebel cannot really be discussed : we don't have any evidence (well, ok, one Imass voices that opinion).

[Mane of Chaos]

I don't think there's supposed to be a link between the Bonecasters. The way I understood it is that if Raest possessed a Bonecaster, he would then be able to control the Bonecaster's whole clan. Of course, I might be completely wrong. It could very well mean that the Bonecasters are extremely powerful individuals and that possessing a Bonecaster would greatly increase Raest's power.

[Abyss]

I always figured Onrack's picture triggered a 'love of life' response in Kilava that made her rebel. Plus she was probably preggers with his kids following their pre-ritual sheboing.

So she, soletaken panther bonecaster that she is, kills her whole family (i mean, they were about to become undead anyways....) except for Tool who either fights her off or otherwise doesn't get death-clawed, and bails, staying out o the Ritual and apparently not being debone(caster)ed/bonecasterated.

- Abyss, henceforth will refer to Onrack as being 'bonecasterated'.

[fan_83]

the thing, is then why tool was chosen to go free reast on the basis that hes clanless.. i mean hes the first sword, if any otehr imass can be used, they would send htem instead of the first sword,and why is legana chosen to be stuffed into the rent on the basis that hes clanless as well>?

both scenario implies a sort of link between bonecasters adn their clan, in that enslaving one allow for the enslaving of another..

[Mane of Chaos]

I think that Legana was chosen because his death wouldn't cause pain to anyone, since he/she (was Legana male or female?) did not have a clan anymore. Perhaps if a T'lan Imass, who was part of a clan, gave up his/her soul in order to close the rent, then the clan members would feel his/her death and would grieve for him/her. I've no answer to your question about Tool though. I too wonder why the Imass so easily decided to let their First Sword on such a dangerous mission. It's strange, isn't it?

[Abyss]

Stormy made the observation in DG...

Clanless = expendable.

Tool as First Sword was probably least likely to be taken by the Tyrant, so least risky.

- Abyss, First Cell-Phone.

[Cedeos]

I just reread and reread the passage in GotM where Tool tells Lorn about the Jaghut Tyrant.
In my understanding Logros sent him because he was clanless and enslavement of others could only work through blood kinship. So if he was taken by the Tyrant he would only have gotten one being, very skilled with the sword but not a sorceror. The danger of sending a bonecaster would not only lie in the links he has (if he has still kin) but mainly in the Tyrant controlling two elder warrens, OP and Tellan, ice and fire.
Tool said himself to be expendable, be he First Sword or not. And one other point seems to be that he was chosen as one of the most loyal, most cunning and strongest of the Logros Imass, best man to accomplish his task (personal opinion that is).

[Monoch Ochem]

I've been away for a while and what do I discover on my return??? Open season on BONECASTERS???? Are you guys insane??? You dare doubt the power of a Bonecaster?? Three of them DARED Hood to defy them! Dared Gethol to run back to Hood while they waited. DARED to challenge a god! In DG, the one who veered to seal the rent with Legana Breed and the the hidden Tiste Andii head was said to have an impressive amount of power...and she was only a bird! Monok Ochem swatted aside that nasty Edur chaotic sorcery without a sweat while the Letherii failed....we still don't know what exactly happened why he melted. Icarium's sorcery is pretty powerful stuff and it seemed to have pursued him into the throne chamber. What he did there is not known...I still wonder if he tried to destroy the Throne somehow and it destroyed him. Anyway, he didn't prepare rituals; he ran into that maelstrom of chaos and batted it aside with his sheer momentum, then 'ate' the warlock without....come ON guys!!

It's been said already but I have to intone the question....don;t you have to be pretty DAMN powerful to be worthy foes of the Jaghut...moreso, to have driven them nearly to extinction????

Does an undead mage/shaman get tired? As for the non-battle aspected thing? They aren't capable of sending roiling waves of power....I say wait. I'm willing to risk the gamble. Wait until SE unveils the Imass in their fury!

[Dark Mac]

GingerBreadMan said:

I have a problem with the theory that taking over a bonecaster gives one control of his clan.

The reason they used the Ritual was to combat Jaghut Tyrants. Tyrants who have a habit of posessing others, surely they would have seen it as too risky to have a link allowing the bonecaster control. All a Tyrant would have to do is posess the weakest Bonecaster and wham he would have his own T'lan army.

That's an excellent point. If the Jaghut could just possess Bonecasters and become all-powerful, the Imass never would've stood a chance against the Jaghut. Tool's statement in GotM is probably just a GotMism.

[fan_83]

the janghut could posses the bonecasters but we don;t know the requirement for such enslavement, perhaps it has to be withing touching distance or some such.

if it requires physical touch, then majority of the bonecasters are safe as they are not the first ones to go toe to toe with a janghut, they are still mages who stand back and hit with magic..

so until we know how enslavement can be done, i believe that the enslavement is stil a true process and tool was chosen for the reason that hes clanless

[Dark Mac]

fan_83 said:

the janghut could posses the bonecasters but we don;t know the requirement for such enslavement, perhaps it has to be withing touching distance or some such.

if it requires physical touch, then majority of the bonecasters are safe as they are not the first ones to go toe to toe with a janghut, they are still mages who stand back and hit with magic..

so until we know how enslavement can be done, i believe that the enslavement is stil a true process and tool was chosen for the reason that hes clanless

Pran Chole and Kilava both come right next to a Jaghut without fear. So do the Bonecasters who meet with Gethol. Again: it's just a GotMism.

[Illuyankas]

Or a Raest-only thing.

[dktorode]

yeah i agree with Illy....it could be that you have to be extremely powerfull..ala reast/gothos to posses some one...so it would be very rare indeed...i dont think your average joe jaghut can posses a nother body..

[Dark Mac]

Well then, the Bonecasters were still planning on taking on Pannion, who appeared to be one of the upper class Jaghut. He could certainly possess others, but the Bonecasters are unafraid.

[GingerBreadMan]

Exactly, the upper ranks of the Jaghut all appear to have this capability to possess others and isn't the main objective of the Bonecasters to take down such Tyrants?

The strength of the Tyrants seems to be in part this unique ability(maybe not as unique as we think?)to possess others. Why in the world would you allow such a huge chink in your collective armor as this "possess one, get them all) flaw?

Makes no sense, perhaps Tool had a different meaning?

[Dolorous Menhir]

I think the distinction between Raest, Pannion and other Jaghut was that they were Tyrants. This is the important point. It's not that they were more powerful than other Jaghut (though they appear to have been) but that they are willing to use their powers to dominate.

It's this quality that makes them separate among the Jaghut - and why they were reviled amongst their own kind. I would say that all Jaghut are capable of this domination (or capable of learning it), but they just would not use it, even as a last measure of self-defence. It's seems like a pretty strong racial taboo.

[Varan]

bonecasters are powerful and they get their power for their victims. It says somewhere in bonehunters how they drain the power away from the ones they pin under rocks.

GingerBreadMan said:

Which would raise the question,Why do more than one Bonecaster travel to their various destinations? If they can "share" their power via a link, wouldn't they just sit around in a cave and send whoever drew the short straw to do their business?

And a clan needs a bonehunter to travel the warrens, and if the bonehunter snuffs it then the whole clans lost, like in MT, with that lost trible of imass in SD