[Gothos]

okies, some thoughts on the 6 vs 7 continents matter.
possibilities, more like.

1) Assail. if it was as much of a nightmare in those times as it is in the present (Shadowthrone's or Cottilion's speech from TBH) they might have just never heard from the colonizers on that shore again.

2) there could be that landbridge from Korel to Jacuruku. after all, we see Africa as a seperate continent from Asia, even though there is a landbridge connecting them (never mind that canal). We also divide North and South America as seperate continents, while they're connected as well (again never mind the canal)

[Werthead]

Gothos said:

okies, some thoughts on the 6 vs 7 continents matter.
possibilities, more like.

1) Assail. if it was as much of a nightmare in those times as it is in the present (Shadowthrone's or Cottilion's speech from TBH) they might have just never heard from the colonizers on that shore again.

2) there could be that landbridge from Korel to Jacuruku. after all, we see Africa as a seperate continent from Asia, even though there is a landbridge connecting them (never mind that canal). We also divide North and South America as seperate continents, while they're connected as well (again never mind the canal)

Yep, but Africa and Asia are geologically seperate landmasses, as are SA and NA. Also no such landbridge was mentioned in Memories of Ice by K'rul when he walked across both continents.

[Father Light]

Stratem is mentioned in moi as a subcontinent of Korelri. pg 380. so we haave Quon Tali. Assail. Lether. Korelri/stratem. Jacurucku. Seven Cities. Genabackis. seems pretty clear that there are 7 to me.

[Werthead]

Yep. But the problem is that in Midnight Tides we are told that the First Empire mapped the shorelines of 'all six continents'. Hence the confusion.

[Illuyankas]

Perhaps said landbridge was destroyed in the Fall? A goodly sized chunk of thigh or something, and bye bye visibly connected continents. I'm sure the First Empire didn't have sonar to find the boundaries of continental and ocean plates, unless Ruse mages...

[Dark Mac]

The First Empire was around mostly after the Fall. The Fall was around 130,000 years ago, while the First Empire only fell 70,000 years ago. I suppose a Jade Giant could've fallen in the meantime and caused similar damage, erasing a landbridge.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Dark Mac said:

The First Empire was around mostly after the Fall. The Fall was around 130,000 years ago, while the First Empire only fell 70,000 years ago. I suppose a Jade Giant could've fallen in the meantime and caused similar damage, erasing a landbridge.

Where does the 70,000 figure come from? Because that would mean the First Empire of Dessimbelackis was in existence for over 50,000 years.

[Father Light]

jacurucku is also referred to as korel's sister continent. suppose some kind of linkage is poss and the lether aren't geologists and assume that any single landmass is one continent!

[Illuyankas]

Dolorous Menhir said:

Where does the 70,000 figure come from? Because that would mean the First Empire of Dessimbelackis was in existence for over 50,000 years.

Wasn't there a mention of the age of that destroyed city by Heboric in DG? When he first uses his ghost hands?

Besides, we know it's been around for 30,000 years at the least, due to Icarium's machine in that destroyed First Empire city from 90,000 years before. And we have the start date, with it beginning shortly before the Fall.

@Father Light - the records the Lether have are the ones taken from the First Empire when they fled the Imass after the Soletaken Ritual.

[Dark Mac]

The Ceda tells us in MT that the First Empire fell apart either 7,000, 70,000, or 700,000 years ago. I think it's pretty clear which one is the right date.

[Illuyankas]

Well, it's not so much of a jump to believe, is it? Especially with the Deragoth as your Emperor, that'd put anyone off secession.

[Murrin]

The 7, 70, 700 was referring not to the First Empire but to the Seventh Closure, and I'd had the impression the Seventh Closure was about the reappearance of the Tiste Edur empire, and the Letherii only misinterpreted it as their own empire.

The First Empire was in its early stages when Kallor had his empire - and Kallor's empire was destroyed around 110,000 years before BS, IIRC. For the First Empire to have ended 70,000 years before MT, it would have to last ~40,000-50,000 years.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Murrin said:

The 7, 70, 700 was referring not to the First Empire but to the Seventh Closure, and I'd had the impression the Seventh Closure was about the reappearance of the Tiste Edur empire, and the Letherii only misinterpreted it as their own empire.

The First Empire was in its early stages when Kallor had his empire - and Kallor's empire was destroyed around 110,000 years before BS, IIRC. For the First Empire to have ended 70,000 years before MT, it would have to last ~40,000-50,000 years.

That's an interesting point - I find it hard to believe that the First Empire lasted so long, but the Letherii kingdom must be even older than that, and if we reduce the age of the First Empire from 40,000 to 20,000 years then we increase the length of the Lether nation's life by the same amount.

Thing is, Dessimbelackis seems to have been First Emperor for the whole lifetime of the First Empire. Just can't believe that lasted for tens of thousands of years. No matter what Dessimbelackis' powers were, he still lead a society of humans, we aren't talking about Imass or Andii here.

[Illuyankas]

How old is Rake? T'riss? KALLOR?

He was the Deragoth, an Ascendant and really, really powerful. I can easily see Dessimbelackis running an empire for fifty millenia. Don't like his rule? Prepare to spend the next day digesting in seven stomachs. And after all, the First Empire only started falling apart once he was 'lost' (I'm assuming he was subsumed by the Deragoth, but he might be back) to it.

Plus, I think Lether only recently became an organised nation, being scattered First Empire colonies for a long time before meeting up and organising. Otherwise Bluerose, Kolanse and the other problem people would have been dealt with much earlier.

[Dark Mac]

Murrin said:

The 7, 70, 700 was referring not to the First Empire but to the Seventh Closure, and I'd had the impression the Seventh Closure was about the reappearance of the Tiste Edur empire, and the Letherii only misinterpreted it as their own empire.

It referred to both, although I can see how you wouldn't remember that. The First Empire was supposed to be reborn (at the end of the Seventh Closure) 70,000 years after it collapsed. It was reborn, but as a Tiste Edur empire rather than a human one.

[Murrin]

The new Tiste Edur empire is not the First Empire reborn - it's the Tiste Edur empire reborn. The one that was in Emurlahn. The one Scabandari killed 700,000 years ago.
But I agree that there was an intended parallel between the two.

[Dark Mac]

That's...actually a pretty cool theory. The only problem with it is that there wasn't really an empire. IIRC, Ruin and Scabby always worked together, and I can't really see that happening if the TE had had an empire. Being the ruler of a single Warren doesn't make an emperor either. Still, the more I think about it, the more I like your theory. Awesome stuff.

[Murrin]

Scabandari and Ruin were leaders after the Empire fell. Scabandari murdered all the Edur royal family, somehow caused the sundering of Emurlahn, and fled with the Edur into the Malaz world.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

This is actually the first map I have looked at. I hate spending too much time flipping to the front of books looking to see exactly where on the map things are happening. As far as I can tell, this didn't affect my understanding of the story at all. But then, I guess i wouldn't know if I did.

[Yasnian]

the seguleh island looks huge