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Shadowthrone is dissapearing (?)
#21
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Posted 18 April 2006 - 09:55 PM
only a mortal can command the First Throne and the Imass .. thats explicity stated in MoI iirc
#22 Guest_shadowthrone_*
Posted 18 April 2006 - 09:58 PM
:Erm: Do u have any idea roughly where in MOI it states this i not long finished reading it again and will kick myself for missing it just a general area if you could:D
#23
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Posted 18 April 2006 - 10:03 PM
heheh..... that's a lot of pages.... and it might even have been HoC... with Onrack etc.
I'll be happy to find the quote and post it
I'll be happy to find the quote and post it
#24 Guest_shadowthrone_*
Posted 18 April 2006 - 10:05 PM
cheers a general location will do but if u feel like doing all the hard work feel free
#25
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Posted 18 April 2006 - 10:39 PM
It was HoC -- sorry p.580 Tpb
These renegades serve the same master as
do your kin. Should they lead one of your mortal kin to take the First
Throne, thus acquiring mastery over all the T’lan Imass, do you
imagine they will be as circumspect in using those armies as was
Emperor Kellanved?’
The Tiste Edur said nothing for a time, then he sighed. ‘All right. But
you lead me to wonder, if the First Throne is so vulnerable, why have
you not set someone of your own choosing upon it?’
‘To command the First Throne, one must be mortal. '
and some other bits....
MoI : ‘A mortal known then as Kellanved, Emperor of Malaz.’
Silverfox said nothing for a long moment, then, ‘Of course. But he no
longer occupies it, does he?’
‘He no longer occupies it, Summoner, yet he has not yielded it.’
‘What does that mean? Ah, because the Emperor didn’t die, did he?’
Olar Ethil nodded. ‘Kellanved did not die. He ascended, and has
taken the Throne of Shadow. Had he died in truth, the First Throne
would be unoccupied once more. He has not, so it is not. We are at an
impasse.’
HOC :on the Nameless Ones .... They had come to realize that its power could be
claimed, that the T’lan Imass could be made to bow in service to the
first mortal to seat him or herself upon it.’
These renegades serve the same master as
do your kin. Should they lead one of your mortal kin to take the First
Throne, thus acquiring mastery over all the T’lan Imass, do you
imagine they will be as circumspect in using those armies as was
Emperor Kellanved?’
The Tiste Edur said nothing for a time, then he sighed. ‘All right. But
you lead me to wonder, if the First Throne is so vulnerable, why have
you not set someone of your own choosing upon it?’
‘To command the First Throne, one must be mortal. '
and some other bits....
MoI : ‘A mortal known then as Kellanved, Emperor of Malaz.’
Silverfox said nothing for a long moment, then, ‘Of course. But he no
longer occupies it, does he?’
‘He no longer occupies it, Summoner, yet he has not yielded it.’
‘What does that mean? Ah, because the Emperor didn’t die, did he?’
Olar Ethil nodded. ‘Kellanved did not die. He ascended, and has
taken the Throne of Shadow. Had he died in truth, the First Throne
would be unoccupied once more. He has not, so it is not. We are at an
impasse.’
HOC :on the Nameless Ones .... They had come to realize that its power could be
claimed, that the T’lan Imass could be made to bow in service to the
first mortal to seat him or herself upon it.’
#26 Guest_shadowthrone_*
Posted 19 April 2006 - 08:38 AM
the MOI one i remember that was wat made me think it was more a confused matter rather than a straight cut "only a mortal" thing.
and the HOC passage i took to mean that what they meant by mortal was not undead like them they are after all truelly immortal while the gods are merely difficult to kill thus leaving it open for kellanved to reclaim it only he's reluctant as his realm would be assailed by everyone so he simply protects it rather than claiming it.
i still remain sceptical that he cant use it other wise onrack would have just told dancer that rather than saying it is weakening his command in BH but i guess we'll just have to wait and see.
thanx for getting the passages tho
and the HOC passage i took to mean that what they meant by mortal was not undead like them they are after all truelly immortal while the gods are merely difficult to kill thus leaving it open for kellanved to reclaim it only he's reluctant as his realm would be assailed by everyone so he simply protects it rather than claiming it.
i still remain sceptical that he cant use it other wise onrack would have just told dancer that rather than saying it is weakening his command in BH but i guess we'll just have to wait and see.
thanx for getting the passages tho
#27
Asandir 
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Posted 19 April 2006 - 10:59 AM
Here's my own thoughts.Shoot away if wrong.
Kellanved as a mortal commanded the first throne, he did not die but acended becoming immortal leaving his control over the imass fading into nothing. Silverfox wasn't created to rule the imass but to free them from the tellan ritual (second gathering MoI, might be wrong only rereading it now). So my guess is shadowthrone is protecting the first throne until a decent ruler of the malazan empire comes along to rule it with shadowthrones blessing of course..........Coltaine reborn perhaps
Kellanved as a mortal commanded the first throne, he did not die but acended becoming immortal leaving his control over the imass fading into nothing. Silverfox wasn't created to rule the imass but to free them from the tellan ritual (second gathering MoI, might be wrong only rereading it now). So my guess is shadowthrone is protecting the first throne until a decent ruler of the malazan empire comes along to rule it with shadowthrones blessing of course..........Coltaine reborn perhaps
#28
Morgoth
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Posted 19 April 2006 - 11:36 AM
Coltain will not return in SE's books. As to Shadowthrone guarding the throne for someone else: I highly doubt it. ST works seemingly to reinforce his position and slowly accumulate more and more power. There may be other motives, but the main one seems to be power, and that power will belong to ST. And why, if indeed he was guarding it, should the future ruler be Malazan? ST do not seem to hold his old empire in very high regard
Take good care to keep relations civil
It's decent in the first of gentlemen
To speak friendly, Even to the devil
It's decent in the first of gentlemen
To speak friendly, Even to the devil
#29
Abyss
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Posted 19 April 2006 - 01:59 PM
I suspect the key point is that Ammanas/Shadowthrone does not wish to use the First Throne, possibly because he is no longer mortal and cannot, and possibly because it would draw unwanted attention from other ascendants/gods.
Rampant speculation about random characters sitting on the Throne aside, there are three mortal Imass hanging around who qualify for the seat: Kilava, Tool and Silverfox.
But it appears one needs only be mortal, not Imass, since Kellanved did command them before.
Tho' i'm left wondering who the CG has in mind if the Edur succeed, as it appears that Rhulad is no longer mortal.
- Abyss, no longer moral.
Rampant speculation about random characters sitting on the Throne aside, there are three mortal Imass hanging around who qualify for the seat: Kilava, Tool and Silverfox.
But it appears one needs only be mortal, not Imass, since Kellanved did command them before.
Tho' i'm left wondering who the CG has in mind if the Edur succeed, as it appears that Rhulad is no longer mortal.
- Abyss, no longer moral.
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#30
Set'alahd Crool
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Posted 20 April 2006 - 10:35 PM
Abyss said:
Tho' i'm left wondering who the CG has in mind if the Edur succeed, as it appears that Rhulad is no longer mortal.
- Abyss, no longer moral.
- Abyss, no longer moral.
Kallor. He's mortal for eternity.
#31 Guest_Danyah_*
Posted 20 April 2006 - 10:54 PM
Rhulad is still mortal. He just occupies the throne of chains, if that name is correct.
#32
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Posted 21 April 2006 - 08:07 AM
Set said:
Kallor. He's mortal for eternity.
ooh! Nice post
#33
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 21 April 2006 - 11:54 AM
Hetan said:
ooh! Nice post
Oh yeah!
#34
Abyss
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Posted 28 April 2006 - 04:45 PM
@Danyah - he's stronger than baseline Edur. He dies and comes back. Not the most pleasant version of ascension, but i'd say he's beyond normal.
As for Kallor, s'possible he's who the CG has in mind, but that suggests a level of trust i'd find surprising. Would you trust this guy with command of several tens of thousand of undead killing machines plus Bonecasters?
- Abyss, wouldn't trust Kallor with a puppy.
As for Kallor, s'possible he's who the CG has in mind, but that suggests a level of trust i'd find surprising. Would you trust this guy with command of several tens of thousand of undead killing machines plus Bonecasters?
- Abyss, wouldn't trust Kallor with a puppy.
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#35
Illuyankas
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Posted 28 April 2006 - 04:55 PM
If the T'lan Imass can't kill the CG, and refuse to even try, what does the CG have to fear? After all, once the inevitable destruction of most of Wu is finished, he can always kill Kallor.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#36 Guest_Danyah_*
Posted 28 April 2006 - 05:57 PM
Abyss said:
@Danyah - he's stronger than baseline Edur. He dies and comes back. Not the most pleasant version of ascension, but i'd say he's beyond normal.
His coming back to life is because of the sword, not because he's special. He wasn't before he got hold on the sword.
#37
Abyss
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Posted 28 April 2006 - 07:29 PM
Hmmmm.... so you're saying power due to an object does not equal ascension.
Ok, i can accept that as a possibility. Rake would've been uber-andii even without his sword.
- Abyss, needs a better plan for ascension.
Ok, i can accept that as a possibility. Rake would've been uber-andii even without his sword.
- Abyss, needs a better plan for ascension.
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#38
High Marshal Flit
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Posted 28 April 2006 - 07:39 PM
The power Rhulad gets from sword at 1st might not have equalled his rise in stature, but ascension is also based on experiences and what that person(s) have been thru, so the pain he's gotten from dying and being reborn all those times has gotta count for something and not to mention the endless duels he's been in, he's probably a very good swordsman by now, b/c wasn't it mentioned that he's faced many, many champions, and while some of those probably killed him you'd think he'd pick up a couple of pointers along the way. I wonder how burial coins are left on him now, about $2.75 maybe
#39
fan_83
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Posted 28 April 2006 - 08:24 PM
err he doesn;t get better with teh sword.. its the sword itself htat gets better.. look at the description of the fight against both iron bars and brys in mt .. the sword moves on its own not via rhulad control
#40
High Marshal Flit
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Posted 29 April 2006 - 02:30 AM
time has passed since then and tBH, on the ship someone tells either Karsa or IC that Rhulad has fought many champions since taking the throne, and if the sword moved on its own would he ever be killed? alright maybe he's still got @ 5 dollars in coins on him, or it that 7.50 in Euros?
