[Murrin]

I believe in the creation of the Warrens, shown in MoI, it began with the 'twin chambers of the heart': Kurald Galain and Starvald Demelain. If the Warrens were crafted from Demelain as a source, it is possible that K'rul used the power and aspect of the dragons to fashion the Warrens, so that dragon and Warren are intrinsically linked.

On top of this, it seems that at a later point the aspects were shared out with the half-bloods - perhaps because threat to the dragons was perceived? - so that the Warrens are no longer linked only to the dragon that began with that aspect.... i'm just thiking out loud. Not much information to go on, really. For example, where do the Elder Gods, most of whom are draconean, fit in?

[tiam]

kruls title switches a few times. he is opener of the paths and maker of the paths and these are quite different.

my view is that krul is the housing of the paths. he is draconean himself ( i cant see how though) but he houses the warens in his veins. mages and co who use the warrens swim in kruls veins and krul uses the dragons as a sort of core for the warrens.

The warrens are shared as a safety measure and also IMO to draw upon more power for certian warrens e.g. MD 3 kids are all cores for KG

[Cause]

I think its something like this. Krull released his blood to shape the warrens the dragons like servant artisans shaped that blood to build the warrens and than left back to starveld as if they walked the primary realms they could alter the from of the warrens to suit themselves. No dragons wont make the warrens disapeear but they will be weakened become more choatic allowing powerfull people to shape them to their whims. and the soletaken dragons can do this anyway hence dragons hate soltaken

[Monoch Ochem]

As I understand it, the Eleint were each aspected to a Warren. After drinking Tiam's blood, it was found that the Soletaken Draconean could do just as well. Unlike Tiam though, when the other Eleint (and Soletaken?) die, they stay dead. They seem to be the guardians of the Warrens (ala Osserc) so if they die, the Warren is left.....'open'. Some, like Osserc and Rake are reluctant in this role, particularly where they're worshipped.

I got the impression that K'rul placed some order on the Chaotic existence, with the help of the Errant and the Eleint. Like the draconean Soletaken however, K'rul drank Tiam's blood. Maybe this was how he was able to create the Warrens in the first place...seems like the case for his first sip; for Olar Ethil, it was to gift the Imass with Fire.

[tiam]

yes krul just shaped the warrens from choas

[tjc52]

But not all the warrens - Starvald Demelain and Kurald Galain must have been around before hand. After all, if K'rul is Draconean, he must have come from Starvald Demelain himself.

On another note, what is Mother Dark? apart from Edgewalkers cryptic idea of an "Elemental force"?

[tiam]

many beleive MD to be a black whole or the Abyss.

Also krul did shape all the warrens. SD and KG are the twin chambers of his heart. i admit i myself cant see how this is true as MD was before everything but i cant argue with the book.

[Morgoth]

ah, but K'rull did not shape chaos. He shaped what was already there, namely the holds, into warrens. So he just manipulated what was already there into new shapes

[tiam]

i see your point. he made the rigid holds into more manageable and less dangerous warrens. but bu that fact he cant have existed before the holds suggesting he is quite young in terms of elder gods

[amirebram]

Morgoth said:

ah, but K'rull did not shape chaos. He shaped what was already there, namely the holds, into warrens. So he just manipulated what was already there into new shapes

As we see in tBH, when Cotillion is talking to the three Dragons, one of them calls himself/herself the creator of Emurlhan (the Edur Warren). Emurlhan is the Elder Hold of Shadow, so if a Dragon helped make it, then K'rul cannot have simply manipulated the Hold's into Warrens.

[Illuyankas]

K'rul is included in a list of draconean Soletaken, along with Draconus, Rake, Ruin, Menadore, Lore and the other one (Sukul?) involved in sealing the gate to Starvald Demelain, in MT.

[Cause]

I think krull made the dragons. they served him in the creation of the warens

[Illuyankas]

Why not simply give Serc to another dragon? Perhaps one that was born after they were exiled to SD? Shouldn't be too hard.

[tiam]

yeh maybe even before the elder gods. it makes sense imo

[Loof]

Illuyankas said:

Why not simply give Serc to another dragon? Perhaps one that was born after they were exiled to SD? Shouldn't be too hard.

Maybe there aren't any dragons to spare, maybe they are dieing out, or at least not producing new ones these days *shrug*

[Illuyankas]

We know they breed, from Telorast and Curdle discussing eggs and whatnot, and we know that they grow really fast, so why not?

And could Rud Ellale get an aspected warren?