[Dolorous Menhir]

Did anyone say she had? Though now you mention it, she may well have, given that she kills several hundred people effortlessly and apparently has surpassed even mortal Dancer...and if she hasn't, what will she be like when she does?

Dakkareth said:

My impression was, that the whole thing happened practically within sight of Barathol's village and that help was there within minutes.

Ok, so medical assistance was there for Scillara, but Cutter's guts were pooling around his feet...that should've been fatal almost immediately, certainly in less time than it would've taken for the healer to reach him. And note she is surprised that he still clings to life...it certainly seems someone or something was keeping him alive.

[Tiger_sword]

I'm not sure i think that he was just so determined to live that he clung onto life. People have been known to survive with horrific injuries without medical attention on just willpower until assistance arrives. I think a gods influence would have been slightly more obvious. Of course i am overlooking oppon (who were interested in cutter in GotM of course) a simple push at someone in the village or a pull on a imass could have saved him

[Dolorous Menhir]

I don't know, it kind of seems to me that people who've just been eviscerated would generally be REALLY determined to not die, but it doesn't help them much.

On the matter of Oponn, what did people think of their brief appearance in BH? I was beginning to think they were some kind of GotM aberration that would never be mentioned again...but SE seems to enjoy beating up on the Twins too much to forget them.

I was glad to read about them again, I'd like to see what Ganoes teach them some painful lessons about messing with mortals.

And who is Obo? He hasn't had any prior mention, I think, and I got the distinct impression he wasn't human. And obviously, is very powerful, to so violently evict two gods from his tower.

[Tiger_sword]

Thats the other apsalar (sorry named herself after her) I think she is an imass. Obo was seen in NoK. Fairly powerful but mysterious even in NoK you don't learn that much about him

[innokenti]

Going back to the first post:

I thought the characters pretty much stuck to what they were with developments. Lasseen I think was always incompetent, the reason Kalam turned away was because she convinced him, not because he was right. So in helping Tavore he's realising and trying to make up for that mistake.

QB is just slowly opening up like an onion, we see more and more of him but he very very obviously is on his own side and on the side of his friends. Whatever else he does is pretty much payback for what he's done before - a vicious circle he's content to remain in to advance whatever it is he wants in the end.


Lots of questions thrown up, as with any Malazan Book, in the wake of questions being answered. Still, it feels like the drawing up of the sides is actully clearer now, especially in respect of the opposition of HHW and HHC, they seem to be the most obvious sides of the conflict and everyone else in some way linked to either side.

I am intrigued by Shadowthrone's and Cortillion's plans, they are very clearly going pear-shaped but I suspect these two aren't going to give up easily at all, they've thought it through so much they must have many many contingencies (and luck) in place. Their opposition to the Crippled God though is much more sideways, it is rather defence and offensive defence - out of necessity, and their scheme stretches very far.

Furthermore I think the Malazan Empire is fast growing irrelevant, what is growing far far more relevant are Malazans. Paran and the Host, Tavore and the 14th (and the Perish), and of course those who have already been important i.e. Bridgeburners (QB, Kalam, Fiddler, the Guardians), Tayschrenn, Ammanas and Cortillion etc. The Empire is essentially without any armies, any it raises will be green and useless. It's lost the Host and the 14th and who knows what's up with the ones in Korel? I wouldn't put it past them to go the way of the others.

One interesting idea raised somewhere was the possible re-invigoration of the Empire after a take-over, i.e. by Tavore. I don't see that as practical however since far more important things are happening than some irrelevant Empire.

There.

[doolally2au]

Dakkareth said:

From crushing poverty and no perspectives at all to indulgence and acceptance of power ... doesn't seem too unreasonable to me. And she does recognize, that she's on a bad way - at least I got the impression, that she was beginning an attempt to turn around the whole cult situation (though likely without a plan on how exactly to do that). Probably that's what Paran's referring to, when he speaks of Salvation - he's going to push a little, manipulate things so she can resist the CG's temptations.

I agree. I think at the end there she showed how clever she is. She stymied the whole war-mongering bunch who wanted to fight in the name of shaik and drygnia the apocalyptic with her comments about writing a new book etc. She knew well what she was doing.

[Dravon]

As for the ambush and cutter surviving there are two things u have to take into account.

1. The flies, theres something with that.

2. Cutter has spent time in the company Rake, Oppon, Iccy, The rope, fought beside Rakes bro, spent time inside the Azath, and walked apsalar path for a while. He may have develuped some "power" from these adventures.

[Use Of Weapons]

Dravon said:

As for the ambush and cutter surviving there are two things u have to take into account.

1. The flies, theres something with that.

I think the flies were meant to clue us in the Hood was watching out particularly for Heboric. From the Prologue of DG, we know that flies have a special relationship with Hood, and seemed to have some kind of fascination with Heboric even before his contact with the Green Giant (ho ho ho). While it wasn't obvious to me on the first read-through, it seems to make sense after a few goes.

Rob

[Loof]

Weren't the flies connected to the specific group of unbound imas that serve the CG, who attacked heboric and company?

[Murrin]

I think what might be the most important fact is that the flies died. When Barathol found Heboric's body, it was surrounded by dead flies, Cutter's wound was full of dead flies, and so on - they'd all died when the attack happened.
It seems likely to be Hood, considering the flies in DG (can anyone remind me what Hood said to Heboric in the DG prologue?), and the fact that Hood apparently had Heboric's soul in his realm (for him to be able to release it at Paran's request for help). Didn't we get told that Heboric's soul belonged to the god that held his hands? Does this mean Hood tried to steal him away from whoever would have gotten him - the Jade or Treach? And does it mean that after Hood released him and he dealt with the souls in the Jade, he went to where his soul should have gone (Treach?)?

[Murrin]

But isn't Hood a little too old to be bothered by otataral? I guess this is all part of the big discussion of who Hood is and what his plans are. Hopefully Reaper's Gale will answer some questions there.

[tiam]

hood, as ive sed before, is the most elder non elder god. he is jaghut no matter what people believe. However he can still be affected to otateral as his warren that i beleive is non elder but draws from omtose phellack (in BH the jaghut land of death is under hoods realm. another link) sort of like the whirl wind. an elder riven through with a recent warren

[garden_rake]

quick question...

considering we now know all dragons are aspected (or perhaps all aspects have a dragon) would this then apply to telorast and curdle? if so what would be their aspects, and could aps have been drawing on their power in BH?

[Dave]

Lots of things to comment on here, and just TBH comments in general.

Edgewalker appears in NOK, and, IIRC, we learn a bit about him in that novella. However, I can't recall exactly what we learned...

Trying to figure out what Karsa was fighting in that Malazan stronghold is difficult, because of SE's predilection for misdirection. The whole time I was reading that passage, I was trying to figure out if he was in the same place Kalam had been previously (in DHG? or HOC? can't recall), or somewhere else. And also whether that big lizard was a KCCM or that Toblakai with the Enkar'al soul in it. I'm of the opinion it was the latter, and that the soul within has effected some kind of transformation on the body. Maybe.

As for Lasseen - yes, she's making a mess of things. She seems to know things she shouldn't, and I generally interpret her actions as those of a ruler who is both jealous of her position and unsure of it. She is wary of the 14th because they're loyal to Tavore, not her. Ditto with the Wickans, who I guess she suspects are loyal either to Kellanved or, now, Tavore. Laseen is losing control by trying to ensure her control - at least, that's how I see it. Mind you, I was also really surprised that she let Mallick Rel and Dom anywhere near her person - I thought she would have been far too paranoid for that. Maybe Rel influenced her thinking on this, and other matters, whether through mundane or magical means - or both - I'm not sure.

I also got the impression Soleil and Poleil were FA. I'm curious to see how that pans out. I was really curious about Poleil's thought that she was attempting to heal Burn...how does that tie into her role as Consort? Was she actually playing the CG for a fool? (p.553 in TPB for her thoughts)

I thought it really funny that, after all the build-up of Dejim as an ancient and deadly power, that he turned out not to be so threatening after all. He certainly got disabused of that notion by almost everyone he came up against.

I really, really enjoyed the humour in TBH. MT was not to my liking, as the humour there seemed forced, but TBH was, IMO, a return to form. Looking forward to a re-read.

[innokenti]

baphomet23 said:

I thought it really funny that, after all the build-up of Dejim as an ancient and deadly power, that he turned out not to be so threatening after all. He certainly got disabused of that notion by almost everyone he came up against.

Yeah, I found that pretty funny, considering T'rolbarahl's thoughts on all of it. It's especially ironic also that he was released for one job only... and failed even that. Bit of a dumb animal, eh?