Help
First off just a quick note to say that I've been away from the forums for a while (well, a year) so hello again to anyone who remembers poor little me. The Bonehunters' arrival me has spurred me to revisit and actually post.
Spoilers for BH below. Unsurprisingly.
Now that's out of the way, does anyone care to speculate what's ahead for the Malazans? Good old Surly's behaviour was a rather jarring note in the Bonehunters, she may not have completely lost the plot but she's slipping up a lot, to the extent that I'm beginning to think that Mockra is involved and someone's screwing with her head. We know that she hasn't got long to live from that chapter quote, but equally the Malazans have to be around for long enough for Grub to become First Sword, which we know he does from (iirc) House of Chains. So who is going to be the next Emperor? Any ideas at all? I have an unexplainable hunch that it will be Tasychrenn.
I think what might happen is that she'll lose the army first. Tavore's first loyalty is now to the Fourteenth, and the Fourteenth are now more loyal to her than the Empress. The only other mobile army is commanded by Tavore's brother, and even if they're estranged a bit I doubt he has any loyalty to Laseen either. The manipulation of public opinion against the Wickans shows that the Empress still has control over the civilians, but with the Claw compromised and now decimated, twice, by Kalam in Malaz city that's going to slip. However the Wickan-hate really suggested that Reloe and Dom were after revenge and using Laseen as a tool for it.
Writing this has given me another idea. Perhaps Ganoes as next emperor? He has a habit of receiving unearned positions, he's less tainted by association than his sister, he's got one of the two armies that are left and has noble blood so the Untan nobs might support him on the mistaken assumption he'll help them back. Also, all the books except MT have been partly the misadventures of the Paran family, so a trend that could continue nicely with him on the throne.
I'll stop rambling now.
Future of the Malazans....
#2
tiam 
- Ascendant
-
- Group: Mott Irregulars
- Posts: 3,948
- Joined: 26-January 06
Posted 07 March 2006 - 07:15 AM
as for grub becoming the first sword. id say laseen (or lazeen as it is) will be off the throne andd grub will be first sword of the new empress emporeres empire. seen as its called the late empire neway. I dunno whether tay could get to the throne tho.
As for dom and reloe. reloe died in 7c its mallick rel btw. but yes they have cleverly twisted the 7c scenario in there favour. i wouldnt say mockra tho. just a supremely gullable empress who needed a scape goat. Also i cant see the empress commanding the adjuncts brother to attack her. not only would it not happen but parans master of the deck so he could take revenge.
All in all the empire is fu**ed. no claw as theyve bin done in by kalam. twice. and no army to speak of. especially now with the tiste on there case. id say reapers gail will spell the end for the empire
As for dom and reloe. reloe died in 7c its mallick rel btw. but yes they have cleverly twisted the 7c scenario in there favour. i wouldnt say mockra tho. just a supremely gullable empress who needed a scape goat. Also i cant see the empress commanding the adjuncts brother to attack her. not only would it not happen but parans master of the deck so he could take revenge.
All in all the empire is fu**ed. no claw as theyve bin done in by kalam. twice. and no army to speak of. especially now with the tiste on there case. id say reapers gail will spell the end for the empire
#4 Guest_Serner_*
Posted 07 March 2006 - 11:35 AM
I'm not exactly sure that the chapter quote means that this year is the last year of the reign of laseen. it might be 20 years out in the future. all it says is that someday the reign of laseen stops. [period]. can't read too much into that.
also, not only Kalam decimated the Claw, Apsalar had a minor role to play
also, not only Kalam decimated the Claw, Apsalar had a minor role to play
#5
tiam
- Ascendant
-
- Group: Mott Irregulars
- Posts: 3,948
- Joined: 26-January 06
Posted 07 March 2006 - 11:37 AM
maybe thats why ts the late empire. no i doubt paran would on the basis of convergnece but maybe korbolo dom or mallaick rel? they have some claw and could do in surly if they wanted. korbolo dom also has imperial ambitions to take the throne
#6 Guest_Serner_*
Posted 07 March 2006 - 11:49 AM
I don't thin Laseen is that.. umm... Complacent with Doms and Rels plans. She did ask Kalam to get rid of them... too bad the choice she put up was too rash
#7
tiam
- Ascendant
-
- Group: Mott Irregulars
- Posts: 3,948
- Joined: 26-January 06
Posted 07 March 2006 - 11:57 AM
do you honestly think kalam would have took the job. Also what happened to topper? something about him vanishing in the imperial warren.
and i think that korbolo dom and mallick rel would just kill laseen and take the throne. shes lost her power. shes got no claw and no army.
and i think that korbolo dom and mallick rel would just kill laseen and take the throne. shes lost her power. shes got no claw and no army.
#8 Guest_Serner_*
Posted 07 March 2006 - 12:28 PM
but I don't believe he current predicament is because she's weak. she has been fighting a battle, though and lost.
you can't survive being empress as long as she has without having some abilities.
you can't survive being empress as long as she has without having some abilities.
#9
fan_83
- First Sword
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 680
- Joined: 05-January 03
Posted 07 March 2006 - 02:50 PM
i would be guessing she got blindisded by mallicks story telling of aren... but even if dom and rel became emperor... and try to shift the allegienge towards the cg.. i think paran and tavore would step in... doubt either dom or rel would fool around with paran...
imagine paran draws a card adn says its rel and accidentally tear an arm off on the card...
looks at rel's arm flying off at teh shouldde
ceda- imagine the power of drawings... what could he do
imagine paran draws a card adn says its rel and accidentally tear an arm off on the card...
looks at rel's arm flying off at teh shouldde
ceda- imagine the power of drawings... what could he do
#10
Blacksox
- Captain
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 176
- Joined: 12-January 05
Posted 07 March 2006 - 05:59 PM
I think the future of the empire can be summed up in five words. "The Return Of The Crimson Gaurd." At least I hope so. And I hop mallick and Corbolo get theres. Not even to mention that stupid (self sensor) Laseen I hate that incompetent moron she has essentially destroyed the whole empire. Its past time Kazz returned and set things right.
#11
Dolorous Menhir
- God
-
- Group: Wiki Contributor
- Posts: 4,550
- Joined: 31-January 06
Posted 07 March 2006 - 07:01 PM
I was half-convinced through the book that Tavore was going to seize the throne. And it was pretty shocking to see how lost Laseen was. I always thought she was, in truth, a good (by which I mean competent, not necessarily benevolent) ruler, and that there were unknown unseen reasons for her apparent bad decisions. Perhaps even that she worked in collusion with Cotillion and Ammanas.
Clearly, I was wrong on all counts there.
I see two candidates for the Throne now (I certainly read that chapter quote as saying her end was nigh):
Korbolo Dom: because, honestly, did anyone reading his POV's in HoC think he would ever, ever get this close?
Aragan. Enough said.
Clearly, I was wrong on all counts there.
I see two candidates for the Throne now (I certainly read that chapter quote as saying her end was nigh):
Korbolo Dom: because, honestly, did anyone reading his POV's in HoC think he would ever, ever get this close?
Aragan. Enough said.
#12
zeeny
- Sergeant
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 90
- Joined: 08-December 05
Posted 07 March 2006 - 08:20 PM
Quote
I always thought she was, in truth, a good (by which I mean competent, not necessarily benevolent) ruler, and that there were unknown unseen reasons for her apparent bad decisions.
If the Laseen we saw is the true Laseen, I judge it a cock up by SE. It's not even remotely close to what we knew of her so far, and it will mean that some of the major charcaters of the series acted completely out of character letting her stay in power. Also, the way she's lost control over the claw seemed ridiculous too. The whole Malick in Malaz city plot line was the most inconvincing bit in the series so far.
#13
Illuyankas
- Retro Classic
-
- Group: The Hateocracy of Truth
- Posts: 7,254
- Joined: 28-September 04
- Will cluck you up
Posted 07 March 2006 - 08:25 PM
The only possible excuse I can see is if identifying the hidden enemy behind Rel is worth sacrificing the Claws, the 14th and all trust in her judgment by the Empire - and it better not be the CG AGAIN, but a different foe. If it was the CG, it'd seem really unnecessary to go that far, as he'd be the obvious culprit.
Crazy Theory Time! Mallick Rel is an agent of the Tyrant!
Crazy Theory Time! Mallick Rel is an agent of the Tyrant!
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#14 Guest_Fool_*
Posted 07 March 2006 - 09:16 PM
If laseen just continues to act the bumbling fool she did in BH without any explanation i will be very disappointed, too.
#15 Guest_Andreas_*
Posted 08 March 2006 - 09:05 PM
I think there is more to Laseen's apparant fall from power than we have seen thus far. Her hand, I would guess, has been forced in some manner so that she has had to place herself and the Empire in a bit of a game of chance, but she is obviously resourceful and cunning, to have got to where she is and held it, and I'm guessing Kalam as Clawmaster weren't her shaved knuckle in the hole.
I think Laseen will beat gods before her downfall, and her downfall will be the work of mortals - who have misunderstood her intentions and actions and thought her (just) a bumbling, cruel fool. Laseen's role is too worked up to be uncertain in all the books thus far, and definantly her apparant actions and station in The Bonehunters is out of character, no matter which interpretation of her rule you choose. So I think we will see more of her.
Of course, the surprise in this matter might be that she actually is a bumbling, egomaniac fool and will now fall to Malick Rel and Korbolo Dom.
As to the next Empress/Emperor, I think we will see someone completely unexpected, like Keneb (with Grub being his true source of power and his way in), or Temul, possibly the reborn Coltaine (not much younger than Grub, really, though, in that case, the last Emperor will not be seen taking the throne in this series).
I think Laseen will beat gods before her downfall, and her downfall will be the work of mortals - who have misunderstood her intentions and actions and thought her (just) a bumbling, cruel fool. Laseen's role is too worked up to be uncertain in all the books thus far, and definantly her apparant actions and station in The Bonehunters is out of character, no matter which interpretation of her rule you choose. So I think we will see more of her.
Of course, the surprise in this matter might be that she actually is a bumbling, egomaniac fool and will now fall to Malick Rel and Korbolo Dom.
As to the next Empress/Emperor, I think we will see someone completely unexpected, like Keneb (with Grub being his true source of power and his way in), or Temul, possibly the reborn Coltaine (not much younger than Grub, really, though, in that case, the last Emperor will not be seen taking the throne in this series).
#16
Illuyankas
- Retro Classic
-
- Group: The Hateocracy of Truth
- Posts: 7,254
- Joined: 28-September 04
- Will cluck you up
Posted 08 March 2006 - 09:14 PM
Let's be honest, there's only one candidate for the next Emperor/Empress - Aragan. It's the only logical explanation.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#18
Folken
- Never throw your life away so easily
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 2,908
- Joined: 11-September 04
- Location:Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posted 09 March 2006 - 01:38 AM
Aragan...remember form GotM. Hes the recuriter that Sorry goes too. In MoI he was with Dujeck.
<div align='center'>You must always strive to be the best, but you must never believe that you are - Juan Manuel Fangio</div>
#19
Illuyankas
- Retro Classic
-
- Group: The Hateocracy of Truth
- Posts: 7,254
- Joined: 28-September 04
- Will cluck you up
Posted 09 March 2006 - 02:02 AM
He's in DG as well.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#20 Guest_Fool_*
Posted 09 March 2006 - 02:06 AM
And why are we thinking that he's gonna be emperor? Or was that a joke?
(been ages since i read either of those and they're in a box a few hundred miles away)
(been ages since i read either of those and they're in a box a few hundred miles away)
